Mesa AnythingIO and daughter card capabilities q.

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14 Feb 2010 22:53 #1906 by clytle374
After a bunch of reading I have a couple of questions before I order some cards. I really need the cards at this point.

This is being setup on a benchtop mill as a test setup for a larger machine. I need 4 axis servo output(+/-10V) and encoder inputs. Output for analog spindle drive, plus spindle encoder for rigid tapping. Hand wheel is a must, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't require something as fast as a servo encoder input. Plus the whole list of I/Os for limits, homes, coolant pump, probe, and so on.

What I'm planning on using.
5i20 FPGA with HostMot2
7i33 4 servo card OR 7I48 6 servo card OR 7I65 8 channel (wiki page says the second 2 don't work yet, but the Mesa manuals say they work with Hostmot2. )
7I37TA Isolated I/O card

The Wiki page says that the 7i48 and 7i65 aren't completed yet, the manuals for Mesa say they work with Hostmot2? The 7i48 6 servo card would be ideal giving me an output for spindle control and position. And leave room for 2 7i37s for IO.

Or I can use 2 7i33s, leaving me with only one7i37TA with 16 inputs 8 outputs plus the parallel port. I know that I can use the pins from the unused servo outputs for IO, but is this a capability of the daughter cards? Or do I have to make a split cable to use the remaining IOs?

Wow, this project has made some serious headway. Congrats to all the developers, you have done a real nice job.

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15 Feb 2010 03:10 #1907 by clytle374
I realized I misspoke about the manuals on the 7I48 and 7I65 daughter cards. Both manuals refer to HostMot, neither state they are currently supported.

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15 Feb 2010 18:13 #1913 by PCW
Jeff Epler has written a patch to the HostMot2 driver to support the 7I48s encoder interface. If I get a chance, I will test the patch this week with a 7I48
You can also use two 7I33s, but you would have to split the cable to make use of I/O pins not used for Analog out or encoder in. Sounds like the 7I48 is a better fit
(Hostmot2 support for the 7I65 is probably a good while off)

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15 Feb 2010 22:17 #1917 by clytle374
PCW wrote:

Jeff Epler has written a patch to the HostMot2 driver to support the 7I48s encoder interface. If I get a chance, I will test the patch this week with a 7I48
You can also use two 7I33s, but you would have to split the cable to make use of I/O pins not used for Analog out or encoder in. Sounds like the 7I48 is a better fit
(Hostmot2 support for the 7I65 is probably a good while off)


Thanks

Would someone explain some things to me? I'm getting confused on what is happening where. I understand that the PWM functions and encoder counting between EMC reads is being done ion the 5i20, but the card doesn't seem 'busy' to me. Are there any advantages to the cards with larger FPGA?

I read the softdmc manual on accident. Do the functions of softdmc have any bearing on the HostMot2? Or does softdmc rely on the PC for many of it functions too? This relates to the above question, because if it is all being done on the FPGA, it is very busy.

I'm still getting a little confused on 'what is what' for mesa card. Is the firmware HostMot2 and the PC side driver also called HostMot2?

The difference with between the 7i33 and 7i48 is that the encoders are muxed. Does that mean multiplexed between the 5i20 and the 7i48? Or between the 5i20 and the PCI bus? Sorry for my ignorance of the intricacies of the PCI system.

One more question, maybe it should be a new thread. What about the 8I20 2200W 3 Phase Amplifier? There isn't a manual for it yet, but the product description on the Mesa site mentions HostMot2.

Still trying to wrap my head around all this. I'd like to get involved, but I'm very behind at this point.

Thanks

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16 Feb 2010 02:08 #1920 by PCW
For servo systems, the 5I20 is entirely adequate, since the firmware functions are fairly small
(as indicated by the fact the 12 axis worth of servo interface fit easily in the 5I20s FPGA)
For step motors, the interface is larger (mainly because its quite deluxe with a 48 bit accumulator)
So for example I dont think 8 axis of step motor interface will fit. Note that some of the
HostMot2 configs just barely fit in the 5I20 but thats because they contain both servo and step motor interface hardware

EMC does not use SoftDMC at all. SoftDMC is a stand-alone motion controller with a built in processor.
Since EMC runs on a true real time system, a separate processor is not needed.

There is HostMot2 firmware (for FPGA cards) and the HostMot2 driver that communicates with the FPGA card firmware
something like this: (Probably not exact...)

hardware <-> daughtercard <-> FPGA card <-> HostMot2 Firmware <-> HostMot2 driver <-> HAL <-> EMC
(encoder, Amp, switch etc) (7I33 etc) (5I20 etc) (SVST8_4IM2.BIT etc) (hm2_pci _HostMot2)

One difference between the 7I48 and the 7I33 is that teh 7I48 multiplexes the encoders to save I/O pins.
The multiplexing is done on the 7I48 card, so instead of 18 wires for 6 encoders A,B + index the 7I48 multiplexes
the A,B,I signals 2 ways using a total of 10 wires

We hope that the 8I20 will eventually be supported by HostMot2 but it requires a very different interface type
(high speed serial). We have the firmware but theres a lot of driver work required

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16 Feb 2010 05:52 #1922 by clytle374
PCW wrote:


EMC does not use SoftDMC at all. SoftDMC is a stand-alone motion controller with a built in processor.
Since EMC runs on a true real time system, a separate processor is not needed.


I guess I misread something there. I thought it was software for the FPGA cards. Like the Windows equivalent of the HostMot2 firmware.

PCW wrote:

There is HostMot2 firmware (for FPGA cards) and the HostMot2 driver that communicates with the FPG


That can really confuse someone. Kinda like having 2 children with the same name, unknowing bystanders will go nuts.

PCW wrote:

One difference between the 7I48 and the 7I33 is that teh 7I48 multiplexes the encoders to save I/O pins.
The multiplexing is done on the 7I48 card, so instead of 18 wires for 6 encoders A,B + index the 7I48 multiplexes
the A,B,I signals 2 ways using a total of 10 wires


I'll hold off a bit then.

PCW wrote:

We hope that the 8I20 will eventually be supported by HostMot2 but it requires a very different interface type
(high speed serial). We have the firmware but theres a lot of driver work required


Looks like several of the Mesa cards are going to SPI. So the firmware to handle the serial communication is done, and the interface configuration through HAL is what is still needed?

Driving the 8i20 brings up a world of "what ifs". Mainly waking up the motor and gathering the phase angle without moving it much, or at all. I guess it depends on if the hall effect current sensors are sensitive enough to 'ring' the motor, or if you'd have to detect motion. Of course absolute encoders would solve all that. Exciting stuff.

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16 Feb 2010 15:12 #1933 by PCW
SoftDMC is FPGA firmware (something that comes as a bitfile) It is perhaps more suited to windows as its possible to run it in a buffered mode


The Hostmot2 name is used to differentiate HostMot2 from other driver/card/firmware systems, for example theres an earlier driver
for the 5I20 call m5I20

8I20 is not SPI but rather normal async serial port (though RS-422 at 5 Mbit/second) Synchronous motor startup is alway interesting
But Halls work fine to get you going until get an edge to lock in the encoder offset.
Absolute encoders like the AustriaMicrosystems chips work well also.

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16 Feb 2010 17:40 #1934 by clytle374
PCW wrote:

The Hostmot2 name is used to differentiate HostMot2 from other driver/card/firmware systems, for example theres an earlier driver
for the 5I20 call m5I20


Ah, thanks.

PCW wrote:

8I20 is not SPI but rather normal async serial port (though RS-422 at 5 Mbit/second) Synchronous motor startup is alway interesting
But Halls work fine to get you going until get an edge to lock in the encoder offset.
Absolute encoders like the AustriaMicrosystems chips work well also.


But at least not just specific to the Mesa cards then. Not having the 8i20 manual left me assuming that. So both SPI and RS-422 are both needed still. Do both of these need firmware? Or just the HAL setup? I found the wiki page for Hostmot2 page for SPI.

Let me know when you have a chance to test the 7I48. I'm getting a PC setup now.

Thanks for the info. I was having the "Can't seeing the forest through all the trees" situation.

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17 Feb 2010 03:36 #1938 by clytle374
I hope the code works since I just ordered the 7i48 card. Figured if someone was trying it, it shouldn't be too far off.

I needed the 5i20 and 7I37TA to start anyway and took the chance to aviod paying shipping twice.

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18 Feb 2010 01:38 #1951 by PCW
Jeplers patch worked first time. I had to make a small revision in the VHDL so the enables work as before
(7I48 has common enable for all 6 outputs, not one per channel like 7I33)
HAL file needs some tweaks as well (PWM mode set to 2 mainly)

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