Seeking PC recommendations

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28 Nov 2011 00:56 #15152 by Zahnrad Kopf
Greetings all,

Getting ready to do a retrofit, here, and looking for current recommendations for a PC to use.

Have settled on Mesa cards and will be using my iron and servos.
Machine is a Bridgeport V2XT with brushed servos.
Will be using much of the old stuff as it's really only the control I wish to update.
In truth, everything works well. I just want more from the control than is possible from an SX15 (BOSS 10).
While in there, it is likely that I'll install a VFD to handle the spindle motor's duties, but I've not gotten as far as deciding yet.

I'm fine with using an older IDE hard drive, but am open to considering an SSD.
Video card need not be anything crazy as this will be just a control. CAD and CAM are done on a box just for those purposes.

Basically, I would like to just get something to start with that is known to be rock solid.
I am already starting out dumb and don't want to be chasing latency issues or anything else.
I'm sure I'll have enough of a time just getting the machine wired and working...

In a nutshell, I'm looking for real life experiences and not theory or supposition.

Thanks!

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28 Nov 2011 09:41 #15157 by Rick G

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28 Nov 2011 13:34 - 28 Nov 2011 13:35 #15164 by andypugh
Zahnrad Kopf wrote:

Getting ready to do a retrofit, here, and looking for current recommendations for a PC to use.
Have settled on Mesa cards and will be using my iron and servos.


I have an Intel D510MO, but that has been superceded by the D525MO, which also works well.

I run my D510MO board from an 8GB DOM SSD. It's working well so far, and was very cheap. It also means that you can use a very small PSU.
The SSD is one of these, which plugs directly into an SATA port
www.kingspec.com/solid-state-disk-produc...ata2channel-mlcj.htm
I have been rather abusing it, doing several full EMC2 compiles every night for a year or more with no problems, so there is no write-endurance issue, and in normal CNC use it will nearly all be data reading, where the endurance is infinite.
www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-80
80W is probably overkill for a fanless, SSD system. Note that it doesn't fit the whole PSU slot, but that doesn't matter.
If you have settled on Mesa then the combination of 5i25 and 7i77 looks like it should suit your requirements well.
(It should be fully supported when 2.5 is released, but 2.5 is available as a package from the Buildbot already, and is widely used)
Last edit: 28 Nov 2011 13:35 by andypugh.

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28 Nov 2011 18:27 #15168 by Zahnrad Kopf
Rick G wrote:

You could look here...
wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Latency-Test
www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_ku...,10389/lang,english/
also look at the D525 in the forum. Rick G


Hi Rick,

Yes. Thank you. I saw that, but was a little confused because it isn't clear to me while viewing it the
importance of the other columns, and whether a lower or higher number is more desirable within them...
Additionally, it's not clear if it even applies to my application, as it's talking about the step generation as it relates to latency issues, and I'm using PWM servo amps.

Any guidance?

Thanks.

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28 Nov 2011 18:31 #15169 by Zahnrad Kopf
andypugh wrote:

Zahnrad Kopf wrote:

Getting ready to do a retrofit, here, and looking for current recommendations for a PC to use.
Have settled on Mesa cards and will be using my iron and servos.


I have an Intel D510MO, but that has been superceded by the D525MO, which also works well.

I run my D510MO board from an 8GB DOM SSD. It's working well so far, and was very cheap. It also means that you can use a very small PSU.
The SSD is one of these, which plugs directly into an SATA port
www.kingspec.com/solid-state-disk-produc...ata2channel-mlcj.htm
I have been rather abusing it, doing several full EMC2 compiles every night for a year or more with no problems, so there is no write-endurance issue, and in normal CNC use it will nearly all be data reading, where the endurance is infinite.
www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-80
80W is probably overkill for a fanless, SSD system. Note that it doesn't fit the whole PSU slot, but that doesn't matter.
If you have settled on Mesa then the combination of 5i25 and 7i77 looks like it should suit your requirements well.
(It should be fully supported when 2.5 is released, but 2.5 is available as a package from the Buildbot already, and is widely used)


Andy,

Thanks so much. Very much what I am looking for and very informative.

Thank you.
The following user(s) said Thank You: blacksmith

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29 Nov 2011 02:29 #15177 by Zahnrad Kopf
andypugh wrote:If you have settled on Mesa then the combination of 5i25 and 7i77 looks like it should suit your requirements well. [/quote]

Andy, (or anyone else that is in the know...)

You're comment got me curious.
Can you please explain the differences in these "set ups" (below) for me?

Originally, Peter (I've written him a few days back, but haven't heard back yet)
had given me a recommendation of a 5I20, a 7I48, and one or two 7I37COMs.

How does this differ from the 5I25/7I77 combo?

What differences should I be noticing? (I'm trying to learn here...)

If I'm understanding this correctly, your mentioned combo uses the parallel port. Correct?
And Peter's combo does not. Correct?

I'm not sure why I'd want to use the p-port...

Any insights are appreciated.

Thanks.

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29 Nov 2011 10:42 #15183 by andypugh
Zahnrad Kopf wrote:

Can you please explain the differences in these "set ups" (below) for me?

Originally, Peter (I've written him a few days back, but haven't heard back yet)
had given me a recommendation of a 5I20, a 7I48, and one or two 7I37COMs.
How does this differ from the 5I25/7I77 combo?

7i48 is 6 analogue output channels with encoder conditioning, and 7i37 is 16 outputs and 8x 5-24V inputs.
7i77 is 6 analogue output channels with encoder conditioning, with 16x 5-28V outputs and 32x 5-32V inputs

The difference is that the 5i20/7i37 setup uses one-wire-per signal on 3x50 pin connectors, whereas the 5i25/7i77 combination multiplexes the data into a serial format, and the interconnection is via a 25-way parallel-port type cable.

In pinout spec they are very similar. With a second 7i37 you get another set of IO. The Mesa web site says that you can attach a second Serial card direct to the 7i77, but I am not actually sure this is true. But you can connect a second 25-pin header to the 5i25 and add one or two more of the Serial cards.

Neither setup uses the parallel port. One configuration of the 5i25 is as a "Super Parport" with a conventional pinout but on-card step/pwm generation etc, but it is a low-profile PCI card. In the suggested configuration the pinout is not the same as the parport, the communication is largely through a serial protocol (I think that the encoder signals are wired directly back to the 5i25, however)
This might mean that the 5i20 is faster, but I don't think this will ever matter.

I am not sure why Peter din't suggest the 5i25/7i77. The likely reason is that at the time even he didn't have a 7i77 and also there was no EMC2 driver for the cards. The 5i20/7i48 is a very much more mature and proven combination.

There is some price difference, the 5i20 + 7i48 + 7i37COM is $377, the 7i77 is not on the price list yet, but the 5i25 is only $89 and I _think_ Pete said that the 7i77 was around $150.

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29 Nov 2011 15:12 - 29 Nov 2011 17:43 #15191 by PCW
Replied by PCW on topic Re:Seeking PC recommendations
Yes, I didn't suggest the 7I77 because we don't have them yet (the proto does work fine with Andy's EMC2 driver however)

I made too many PCB /design mistakes on the first run of 7I77PCBs to have a production worthy card without a re-spin so it will be around January before 7I77s are available.

Functionally the 5I25/7I77 is similar to a 7I48/5I20/7I37X2 with the main difference being that the ~24VDC field I/O and analog output sections are connected serially to save interface pins. Also the Field I/O is less flexible than a standard 7I37 as its has a common V+ for the outputs and a common V- for the inputs (this is how the 7I37COM is connected) The 7I77 field outputs are lower current than the 7I37s as well (~300 mA vs 1A)

The 7I76 (1) and 7I77 (6) encoder inputs are connected directly to the FPGA (though the 7I77 uses multiplexed encoders like the 7I48, again to save I/O pins)

Like the 7I76, the 7I77 has one RS-422 serial expansion port to allow connection of more field I/O or a pendant interface (7I64, 7I66, 7I70, 7I71, 7I73, 8I20 etc)
Last edit: 29 Nov 2011 17:43 by PCW. Reason: missing word

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30 Nov 2011 00:16 #15207 by Zahnrad Kopf
Hi Peter,

Can you tell me if you received my email?
I'm wanting to order, and was checking with you to see if you still recommended
those choices for me, or thought of something else that might be better for me.

Thanks.

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30 Nov 2011 01:40 #15209 by PCW
Replied by PCW on topic Re:Seeking PC recommendations
Probably but I may have deleted it by mistake
I would still suggest the 5I20/7I48/2x7I37COMS unless you want to wait until January

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