Installing LinuxCNC On HP T610 Thin Client

More
5 years 6 months ago #205990 by seuchato

Joco wrote: Thanks Chris. I will go over things again and I think I might post the bios settings here to act as a reference. BIOS is at v1.10. I looked at the 1.20 release notes and the only comment was some security related stuff that is not relevant so I have not risked a BIOS update.

Can't really speak for the T610. I played with a 8300 sff, see here . My conclusions playing with the 8300 were confirmed while playing with my dell 980s, too. Looking forward to the bios settings of your T610. Hopefully I can test the T620 and T630 in the mean time, too.

Joco wrote: I can pick up a T630 with 4GB RAM and a 32GB SSD for about $60NZD (around 36USD). Would that be worth getting and pushing the BIOS forward? For the use I plan for it 4GB is actually heaps given it is intended to only be running linuxcnc and even the GUI is going to be run on a remote X11 server. Probably a nice portable laptop. The T6xx0 will be inside an enclosure connected to a 7i76e and a USB3 wifi or ethernet adaptor linking it to said laptop.

Thoughts really welcome as these wee boxes are super cheap and I hope for ethernet connected h/w StepGen able to do the job.

As mentioned: I could not use the t630 until I upgraded the bios, thus: imho yes, BIOS update helps. So far I have not tested it with LCNC, that will follow. My machine has a single 4GB RAM. I am sure, it will be much more performant with two bars. I got OpenSuse on the T630 on a sata based M.2 SSD: very useable!
Imho, I would not really want to control a cnc machine of what sort ever >only< remotely. As an additional convenience, absolutely yes, but not exclusively. Apart from a VNC or remote X11 optional control, I have several webcams installed to monitor the cncs, when I am not close to the machine. I figure this lets me judge - within limits - what's going on and discover, if something went wrong. Also, I would prefer an Ethernet adapter over wifi for reasons of increased reliability.

Greez
chris

Greez
chris

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
5 years 6 months ago #206047 by Joco
Some more information/learnings as I progress on this.

Went back to basics and set the HDD mode to IDE and not AHCI. This looks to have solved the issues I had in getting a wider range of iso's to install.

In BIOS I turned anything relating to energy saving OFF. I also diasabled the VGA Pallette snoop and a PCI SERR# error message. I will experiment with bringing them back later.

I installed the official LCNC Stretch ISO. Ran latency test with 3 glxgears and a you tube video running.
The RT kernel on this release is 4.9.0.15. There were no "special" kernel parameters added. The results I got were rather good for such a light machine that will be used to drive an ethernet mesa card:
Servo=53268
Base=66776

Now on the same setup but Debian 10 with a 4.19.0.16 RT kernel and I was getting anywhere from 180k to 250k on the threads depending on what other clever boot parameters I setup.

I'm in the process of getting a Mint 19.3 install setup and will start with a 4.9 RT kernel, see what happens and start to work my way up the kernel versions until the latency tanks.

Regarding the comments I was making around X11 forwarding. I am not running the machine remote. This is just a set of techniques I am looking at that will allow me to use a highly portable setup beside the plasma table without having to have standalong screen, keyboard etc.. i.e a laptop. The hope is that I can have all the control electronics and the T610 inside an electronics box mounted to the plasma table frame. The only plugs to this box that are not relating to connections motors and sensors being power in and an ethernet port out. I can connect the laptop to said ethernet port and use X11 forwarding to run the linuxcnc UI on the laptop. While having all the RT side done by the "headless" T610.

Cheers - J.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
5 years 6 months ago #206054 by seuchato
Joco
Good to see the progress and congrats!
Kindly note: 3 GLX gears and a video is not (by far not) running a real cnc. Consider the latency test stuff a helper ahead of real life testing. I wrote a script, to bring up comparable results (see here ). This script runs 5 glxgears, resizes them wile running a vimeo video stream. It also collects a bunch of hardware data, that shed a nice light on what and how you use your pc. The script is still far from where I'd like to see it, however. For instance, it still lacks temperature monitoring of amd based machines.

I am astonished, that IDE instead of AHCI gives you better options to install an OS.

What you set up in BIOS makes sense to me. Look into sound options too. Using Stretch may be a dead end soon. Play with Kernels, say starting from 4.9.0.10 onwards. Also look into RTAI again. There are some promising results floating around. Can you get Debian 10 installed using AHCI?

I am a bit puzzled about a) "not running the machine remote" and b) "headless". Guess that needs to be clarified a bit more.
Greez
chris

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
5 years 6 months ago #206058 by Joco
Chris - will try your script and see what happens. Agree nothing replaces real world checks. Unfortunately RTAI is not an option as that will not work with ethernet mesa cards. I would expect based on my past experiences that RTAI would produce much better results than the PREMPT RT kernel.
From the reading I have done and based on comments I have come across from some of the senior board members a latency of up to 150k will be ok with ethernet hardware stepping. However a key test, which I have yet to do as I wait on a PSU to arrive, is the stability of the network connection from the PC to the ethernet mesa board.

re IDE/AHCI - yeah beats me as well. But when AHCI is active the only ISO can get to install AND boot is a Debian 10 nonfree iso with a specific window manager (e.g. MATE or XFCE). I tried the netinstall and whlie it installed it would not boot. It could be all to do with how I was doing things I guess. But at this point I want to move on to hunting down how new a kernel version I can run and still have reasonable latency.

BIOS - yup everything off. Sound, everything. :-)

Stretch - yup is not where I want to be. Used it as a proof as Apt had proven that with some good looking latency numbers. Hence looking at newer stuff. But need to find something that works at the kernel version level. Would be nice to be on either Mint 19.3, Mint 20 or Debian 10. Just need to get a good RT kernel.

Headless/remote - I will try and expalin this better. Key context is to understand that the plasma table I am building is not permanently setup. The table top flips into the vertical on on its wheeled base, so I can store the entire assmebly out of the way.
See: forum.linuxcnc.org/show-your-stuff/42118...mm-cut-area?start=20

Therefore I do not want (again for space reasons) to have a traditional PC/Monitor setup that I have to remove when I put the table away. My thinking had been to have the T610 along with all the control electronics inside a case on the frame. This is nice and tidy, self contained etc. BUT it does mean "where do I have a display and keyboard that is not going to get in the way". I could do some kind of rotating/actuated stand that allows me to fold these items out of the way. Heck given the size the T610 could be on the same stand. This is still an option. The OTHER idea was to use a laptop that I can put on a temporary surface. The Laptop is nice as it contains screen/keyboard/mouse in one box that I can just fold close and shove on a shelf when not in use. I would use X11 forwarding to display the linuxcnc UI on the laptop even though the actual linuxcnc software was running on the T610. This is a technique I have read of others using but just not in this particular use case. As a test I have proven running a linux UI (sim mode) via this technique on a Mac from the office through a VPN into the home network. It's not as fast as running it on the local LAN but it works!

Cheers - J.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
5 years 6 months ago #206171 by Joco
Completed a test using the performance testing script. Thought this might be of interest.

Code:
LinuxCNC pc tests, version 20200930, started 17.04.2021 20:59:33 ******************************************************************************** General info: Hewlett-Packard, HP t610 WW Thin Client Bios version K30 v01.10, dated 10/26/2012 Chipset: Harddisk is non-rotational, ie. SSD The amount of swap currently used is 0 ================================================================================ CPU related data: model name : AMD G-T56N Processor cpu cores : 2 stepping : 0 cache size : 512 KB ================================================================================ RAM related data: Maximum Capacity: 8 GB Size: 2048 MB Size: 2048 MB ================================================================================ GPU related data: product: Wrestler [Radeon HD 6320] configuration: driver=radeon latency=0 ================================================================================ Parallel port related data: number of parallel ports is 0 ================================================================================ Os and desktop related data: PRETTY_NAME="Linux Mint 19.3" Should the info below not match with your machine, kindly post the output of pstree here, including a brief desciption of your desktop environment, window manager and display manager. Tia https://forum.linuxcnc.org/18-computer/39370-script-for-automated-testing-of-computer-latency Desktop environment : lightdm Windowmanager : Xfwm4 Displaymanager : lightdm ================================================================================ Kernel related data: Kernel 4.19.0-16-rt-amd64 GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="intel_idle.max_cstate=0 processor.max_cstate=1 idle=poll isolcpus=1" Cpu idle driver: none ================================================================================ Kernel modules data: Check if pcspkr is loaded: [0;32mNo, which is good![0m Check if snd modules are loaded: [0;32mNo, which is good![0m ================================================================================ Keyboard & Mouse related data: Number of mice: 2 Mouse 0 : Logitech K400 Mouse 1 : Logitech USB Receiver Mice attached to USB: Keyboards attached to USB: ================================================================================ LinuxCNC related data: LinuxCNC version is: 2.9.0~pre0.3825.g57833f598 ================================================================================ Preparing for latency test: Started glxgears No. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 .......... Started firefox with 'https://vimeo.com/150574260', WID ================================================================================ Command for latency test is: su james -c "latency-histogram --nobase --base 25000 --sbinsize 1000 --nox 2>&1 | tee -a 1618649956.lat &" Latency testing loop started Sat Apr 17 21:00:08 NZST 2021, should end after Sat Apr 17 22:00:08 NZST 2021 ================================================================================ Swap useage: prerun: 0, running: 0 ================================================================================ CPU core temperatures:
Code:
3599 s servo min: -5.000 us max: 4.600 us sdev: 0.300 us 3600 s servo min: -5.000 us max: 4.600 us sdev: 0.300 us 3601 s servo min: -5.000 us max: 4.600 us sdev: 0.300 us
The following user(s) said Thank You: seuchato

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
5 years 6 months ago #206235 by seuchato
Jojo
Thanks a ton! Very good latency data, indeed! Would be just about perfect for softstepping too, if it had a parallel port.
Astonishing results looking at the "cache size : 512 KB".
There were no "real time delays" reported?
Did you stop the script after 1 hour manually or had it programmed to stop after 1 hour?
Greez
chris

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Time to create page: 0.245 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum