Another Elumatec SBZ130

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06 Dec 2020 15:42 - 06 Dec 2020 15:51 #191222 by Benno
Hello,
my name is Benno, I'm new to the LinuxCnc-World. I want to try, to rebuild the project of tommylight. Elumatec SBZ130/01
Now I want to order the hardware but I can't get a 7I71, my question is, can I use 7I66-24 instead of this? I know it has half outputs but it should be enough. Do I need another bit file? I think, I can save up the extra relays.
tommylight wrote:

Will have to add a bunch of small relays as the brakes draw 0.68A and the 7i71 can deliver 0.3A per output, no big deal at all just more wires. That would take care of the field power having 28.6V and 7i71 has 5 to 28V outputs and i do not like pushing electronics to it's limits, much safer this way.

Is it just a "little" change in the hal files?

I'm happy about any suggestion and I hope you understand my english :-)
Last edit: 06 Dec 2020 15:51 by Benno.

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06 Dec 2020 16:37 #191232 by tommylight
Replied by tommylight on topic Another Elumatec SBZ130

Now I want to order the hardware but I can't get a 7I71, my question is, can I use 7I66-24 instead of this? I know it has half outputs but it should be enough. Do I need another bit file? I think, I can save up the extra relays.
tommylight wrote:

Will have to add a bunch of small relays as the brakes draw 0.68A and the 7i71 can deliver 0.3A per output, no big deal at all just more wires. That would take care of the field power having 28.6V and 7i71 has 5 to 28V outputs and i do not like pushing electronics to it's limits, much safer this way.

Is it just a "little" change in the hal files?

Yes you can use 7i66, i wish i knew then, would have saved me quite some time and relays. It seems better to get 2 or 3 7i66 and not the 7i70/7i71. I do not recall how many inputs and outputs are used so not sure how many you would need, but beware that the firmware will have 6 SSI and 2 SSerial ports as the SSI are used for the serial absolute encoders that the SBZ is fitted with.
You do need a custom bitfile, should be in the topic you linked, thanks to PCW for providing it. Flashing it is about a minute of work.
And yes, some editing of hal files is required to change from 7i70/7i71 to 7i66.
M.F.G.
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06 Dec 2020 20:11 #191245 by Benno
Replied by Benno on topic Another Elumatec SBZ130
Thank you for your reply.
I will order tomorrow and then jump in the cold water. My plan is a 7i70 for input and a 7i66-24 for output, I need exact 24. But if I have somewhere a mistake in my mind, can I use the IO oft the 7I77?

tommmylight wrote: You do need a custom bitfile, should be in the topic you linked

That means, it does not matter for the Card/Bitfile which device is connected to the SSerial?

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06 Dec 2020 21:21 #191255 by tommylight
Replied by tommylight on topic Another Elumatec SBZ130

But if I have somewhere a mistake in my mind, can I use the IO oft the 7I77?

Yes you can, use it for low current signaling, and inputs used as usuall.

That means, it does not matter for the Card/Bitfile which device is connected to the SSerial?

Yes it does for some, not for 7i70/7i71/7i66.
Beware that the bitfile is for a 5i25 (should also work for 6i25 but wait for PCW's confirmation), and has 6 SSI on the 7i74 (you do need one) and 2 ports for 7i70/7i71/7i66. There is another SSerial on the 7i77 that can be used to connect another 70/71/66.
Did you check what drives/encoders/spindle does your machine use ?
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07 Dec 2020 16:44 #191326 by Benno
Replied by Benno on topic Another Elumatec SBZ130
Hi Tom, thank you for your support!!
I made some pictures for you, I think it is the same as yours. When I'm thinking on the encoder I get headache, they are all the same type but have different values. In the last row, the left value should be the count per revolution (there are some 1024 and 4096). But what means the second value: Anz. U (Anzahl Umdrehungen? Number of revolutions??) There I have a 1 on the spindle, the other are 64 and 4096. Do I use the direction pin on the long x-axis. I saw you have had some troubles with the encoder, but I can't follow it. I have to read it again.
Later, I will order the parts (6i25, 2x7i66, 7i70, 7i74, 7i77) and some mounting material. Then the next step is trial and error :-)
The machine is in a bad condition, it is some years unused and stored on top of each other, many air hoses are broken. I hope the winter is long enough.
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07 Dec 2020 19:56 #191345 by tommylight
Replied by tommylight on topic Another Elumatec SBZ130

I think it is the same as yours.

It sure looks like it is the same, but where are the other parts ? Mine was over 7 meters long and 5000KG heavy!

When I'm thinking on the encoder I get headache, they are all the same type but have different values. In the last row, the left value should be the count per revolution (there are some 1024 and 4096). But what means the second value: Anz. U (Anzahl Umdrehungen? Number of revolutions??) There I have a 1 on the spindle, the other are 64 and 4096. Do I use the direction pin on the long x-axis. I saw you have had some troubles with the encoder, but I can't follow it. I have to read it again.

You are lucky, i had nothing to go on so it took a lot of reading and searching and reading and.... :)
Seems like the encoders are also the same, so again you are lucky, you have a full working config for it. Even if they are not the same, it is easy to adjust for in the main hal file. Anz.U = my guess was the same as yours. And i did not use the direction pin, scratched my head a lot for it, tried it without it, it worked, so i moved on.
The issue with the encoder was as it usually happens, i was monitoring one of the encoders = the one that had a bad wiring = my bad, the rest was working properly but i was not monitoring them, so took a while to figure out my mistake. :)
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07 Dec 2020 20:28 #191353 by Benno
Replied by Benno on topic Another Elumatec SBZ130

tommylight wrote: It sure looks like it is the same, but where are the other parts ? Mine was over 7 meters long and 5000KG heavy!

It is disconnected in the middle. The main part is standing on the other with some pallets between.

tommylight wrote: you have a full working config for it

Without your great preparatory work, it would not have occurred to me to repair this machine. I would have suggested my friend take them apart and sell them. But that's still plan 2.:-)
Once again, thank you very much for your hard work and all other people which helped you.
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07 Dec 2020 22:26 #191360 by tommylight
Replied by tommylight on topic Another Elumatec SBZ130
You are welcomed, always.
That is a magnificent machine with a 300x300x300x6450mm work envelope! To many numbers ? :)
That is literally a full 3 axis machine mounted on another 6450mm long X axis, with a 8 position tool changer.
It is made for work on aluminium, but the one i retrofitted has been working with 4 and 5mm metal profiles only since the day i fixed it, making slots and drilling holes. That is a testament to the quality of the machine, despite being misused for several years it is still working properly!
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21 Dec 2020 21:34 - 21 Dec 2020 21:36 #192718 by Benno
Replied by Benno on topic Another Elumatec SBZ130
Hello Tom,
I got the Mesa cards, the guys in Portugal are very quick.
I wired them on my desk (only the boards), changed the hal files to make the 7i66 work, installed emcochanger and linuxcnc started without problems. Happy!!:cheer:

Now I wanted to ask you about the encoder wiring. Is it correct to supply the encoder with 24v and to connect the clock and data lines directly to the 7i74?
I read something in the data sheet of the 7i74 about +/- 12V and the output is 5V on the RJ45. I became a little cautious because I did not set the jumpers of the Mesa cards correctly and they almost went up in smoke but luckily the power supply switched off due to the overload and the cards survived.

Furthermore, it would be interesting how you solved the long x axis? Are you using a modified trivkins Kinematic or is it controlled by the Cam System's post processor?
I took a quick look at the Sheetcam postprocessor, I'm not sure if it makes sense but as andypugh suggested adding up the two axes. Perhaps using the post processor to divide the axis into several sections?
True to the motto:
if ((x> area1) && (x <area2) {
G0 U Position1
...
} ??
I hope that doesn't all sound completely stupid!

When I saw Linuxcnc (EMC2) for the first time at a friend's house about 15 years ago (hot wire cutter) I didn't think that I was so intensively involved with it. Normally I use Estlcam, it's just plug and play and an Arduino isn't that expensive when it burns down :laugh: .
Thank you for your help.
If I don't get to write anymore: Merry Christmas to everyone.
Last edit: 21 Dec 2020 21:36 by Benno.

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21 Dec 2020 23:16 #192745 by tommylight
Replied by tommylight on topic Another Elumatec SBZ130
The encoders will work with 5V, just do not power them from mesa boards, they draw quite some current. I used a separate power supply with 5V/2A.
For the data wires you will have to experiment as i do recall something about having to reverse some wires for it to work, and they do connect to 7i74 directly. BTW, do not forget to wire the ground to the 7i74 also, so use a good quality power supply for the encoders.
No CAM, luckily they use it for production, drilling holes and milling slots for parts of other machines, so i trained 2 of them to do gcode programming, canned cycles, peck drilling, and such. After a lot of effort to make it work as a "wsum" of both X axis as advised by members of this forum, had to revert back to a simple axis and labelled it as A axis, set to to linear and left it at that. This has proven very versatile for them as they always have repeated patterns of holes/slots, same parts over and over again, and new parts about once or twice a year.
BTW, all parts made on that machine go to Austria. :)
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