Klopp FA7/810M Retrofit

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28 Feb 2021 13:14 #200406 by klopp
Hello guys,

recently I got a "Klopp FA7/810M" CNC mill in a very good condition for an absolute bargain.
The "only" problem is that the Sinumerik 810M has lost all it's data, there is no backup data and it won't start anymore.

So my only solution is retrofitting. I'm very new to all of this, so forgive my mistakes or dumb questions.

The machine uses a Sinumerik 810M controller, a Simoreg D165 G200/25MREQ Transistorsteller for the feed motors,
a Siemens 6RA26 for the spindle, LS703 Heidenhain glass scales and 24V relais/contactors.

As said, I'm very new to this so I have a few questions:

1. If I understood correctly, I need a Mesa card for outputting +-10V for the feed and spindle motors, an analog
to digital converter for the glass scales, a card for the scales, an IO card for the relais to control things
like the coolant pump and a "main" card with an FPGA chip. Also an "old" computer to control all of this.
Have I forgotten something or is this correct?

2. How do I choose fitting cards? They all seem pretty similar, is there some kind of a comparison table?
Do you have any recommendations for cards?

I do have the full documentation, so thats not a problem.
Thanks in advance for your help!

Greetings Tim
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01 Mar 2021 13:30 #200689 by anfänger
Replied by anfänger on topic Klopp FA7/810M Retrofit
You would need an analog control card.
I used the a 7I92H and a 7i77 and some more card for my Chiron retrofit, which also had a 810M control. The other cards you might not need if the IO’s of the 7i77 are enough. If not you can use the serial port of the 7i77 for more IO’s
On my lathe I use a 7i97 wich offers almost the same as a 7i92 and a 7i77.

Cheers Patrick

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01 Mar 2021 13:57 #200691 by RotarySMP
Replied by RotarySMP on topic Klopp FA7/810M Retrofit
Nice project.

Do you have wiring diagrams and manuals for the drivers. That is essential.

I used a 5i25 to connect to the PCs PCI slot, and then a 7i77 to connect to a amalog drives and encoders and added ad 7i84 as I needed more I/O due to complex gearbox.

Today I would use the 7i97 as it saves the 5i25, and is easier to cable up needing only a CAT6 cable to the PC. Add a 7i84 for addition I/O, a 7i73 to integrate the control module back with a single CAT6 cable, and a 7i74 to connect the last two to the 7i97.
Mark

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02 Mar 2021 19:01 #200809 by klopp
Replied by klopp on topic Klopp FA7/810M Retrofit
Thank you for your feedback!
Yes I have all the wiring and manuals for the drivers, the documentation really is very good.

I've decided for the 7i97 as you both suggested, in addition with the 7i73 and 7i74. I think I can get away without a 7i84, but adding one afterwards should be fairly easy if I need more.

While waiting for the parts I'm trying to figure out how many buttons I really need on my control panel.
Is a pc keyboard on there useful or just a waste of space? I think most of the time I will let my CAD generate the GCode anyways, so there shouldn't be too much typing on the actual controller..

I've also noticed that my CNC only has one emergency end stop and a reference switch per axis, is that common?
If I understand correctly, LinuxCNC will take care of the borders so I won't crash my ballscrews, but having an additional hardware end switch would seem more secure (redundancy), but that might only be my opinion.

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02 Mar 2021 20:49 - 02 Mar 2021 20:52 #200819 by RotarySMP
Replied by RotarySMP on topic Klopp FA7/810M Retrofit

I think I can get away without a 7i84,

Only 6 outputs. Good luck there :)

Is a pc keyboard on there useful or just a waste of space?

I thought it was not necessary with a touch screen on the Maho. In practice I almost alwas use the USB Blue tooth keyboard, as you need to navigate the file system, name things, input to the MDI etc. I would never again build a control panel without a key board/key pad.

If I understand correctly, LinuxCNC will take care of the borders so I won't crash my ballscrews,

I think you might be confusing reference switch and end switches. The Maho for example references off the index signal off the glass scale encoders, but has a single end stop switch per axis, triggered by ramp blocks at either end of travel. They are in the Hardwre E-Stop chain, and drop everything if triggered. Yes you will also set soft liits in LinuxCNC, but a hard E-stop chain is essential on a machine like this. If you screw up and run a ball screw on block , the power of these machines will destroy the ball nut ,bearing blocks, castings etc..
Last edit: 02 Mar 2021 20:52 by RotarySMP.

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02 Mar 2021 21:24 #200830 by klopp
Replied by klopp on topic Klopp FA7/810M Retrofit

I would never again build a control panel without a key board/key pad

Okay decision made - keyboard will be implemented

but has a single end stop switch per axis, triggered by ramp blocks at either end of travel


Aah okay I only looked at the schematics wondering wondering how one switch will protect both directions. A look at the machine and I would've seen that the switches are in the middle and can be triggered in both directions, shutting power down.

Only relying on the PLC for such an important task had been against all I learned about machine safety.

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09 Mar 2021 16:27 #201560 by klopp
Replied by klopp on topic Klopp FA7/810M Retrofit
Okay, I'm almost at the end of my nerves...

Initially I installed the LinuxCNC ISO - everything was perfect, Jitter below 15000, no errors. Then I found out that I need to build LinuxCNC from source, as I'm using a 7i97 which doesn't seems supported yet. And then the nightmares began:

For the last 3 days I tried to install a Linux with a realtime kernel. Tried at least 4 different Linux versions, different tutorials, different realtime kernels, only to get an error when booting with a new kernel.

Today I finally managed to install and run Linux Lubuntu with a RT kernel.
Installed LinuxCNC, ran the Latency test - Jitter at around 8 million ns.

I have no clue why, can't be the hardware because with the LinuxCNC ISO I get perfect results.
Do you have any suggestions on how to fix that or how to install patches for 7i97 on the LinuxCNC ISO?

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09 Mar 2021 16:32 - 09 Mar 2021 16:32 #201561 by PCW
Replied by PCW on topic Klopp FA7/810M Retrofit
The current 2.8.1 ISO supports the 7I97
Last edit: 09 Mar 2021 16:32 by PCW.

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09 Mar 2021 16:39 - 09 Mar 2021 16:43 #201563 by klopp
Replied by klopp on topic Klopp FA7/810M Retrofit

PCW wrote: The current 2.8.1 ISO supports the 7I97

Then I misunderstood something.
At the Pncconf configuration Page I couldn‘t choose the 7i97, there was no option for it.
I thought when installing a mesa patch it will show up.
Do I have to select it somewhere else?

EDIT: I found out that I installed 2.8.0, is there an ISO for 2.8.1? The only ISO for 2.8.1 seems for Raspberry PI, I can't use that can I?
Last edit: 09 Mar 2021 16:43 by klopp.

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09 Mar 2021 17:05 - 09 Mar 2021 17:51 #201565 by PCW
Replied by PCW on topic Klopp FA7/810M Retrofit
There is no graphic configurator for the 7I97 but it
has driver support in LinuxCNC 2.8.1

This does mean that you will have to hand edit a close hal file
to change some names to make a working 7i97 hal configuration

Heres a basic example:

File Attachment:

File Name: basic7i97_...09-2.zip
File Size:5 KB
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Last edit: 09 Mar 2021 17:51 by PCW.
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