DMG DMU 50 Retroftiing(?) help

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07 May 2023 10:26 - 07 May 2023 10:33 #270845 by pommen
Is it called retrofitting if your only using the castings?
I recently bought a used frame of a 1999 DMG DMU 50 3 axis wich came without any electronics. It did, however come with two servo motors and the spindle.

I thought of just using the frame and roller ways as a starting point and mounting whatever servos and drivers I think I want (and can power from my 3ph 220V 16A garage). However, it is tempting not to throw out the Franz Kessler spindle to mount a Chinese bt30 spindle :)

Im at a loss trying to find any info on it though. First off, it is a 'normal' ac motor that needs to be driven by a vfd? It has 3 pairs of wires coming out of it, mars U1V1W1 U2V2W2 with makes me think this is a star/delta connection option. But is that enough info to definitely say that it wants a VFD and not a servo driver?

I think the original machine used Simodrive611, buying a new(or used) probably out of my budget. Is anyone familiar on to to drive a Franz Kessler DMS 100.al.4.fos?
 
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Last edit: 07 May 2023 10:33 by pommen. Reason: Horrific spelling

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07 May 2023 10:44 #270847 by tommylight
Since you are in Europe, it is 3x220V ONLY when using it with the neutral, otherwise it is 3x380V, and this is how it is intended to be used.
Personally, i see a lot of motors/spindles/VFD/servo drives burned to a crisp because of this, i can count on my fingers (one hand) people who are aware of that here. Plugging anything with 3 wires and a ground wire that has 3x220V written on it in a European house plug will end in smoke, as it is 3x380V.
Take more pictures, i can not figure out the table mount, it is round and attached to the body, but i can figure if it is flat or at an angle from the picture. Does it spin by any chance?
See how things are mechanically, ballscrews will cost much more than drives and motors, for good ones.
What condition are the rails at? Minor rust should not be an issues, a bit more rust in the groves where the balls roll it becomes an issue fairly quickly.
I would not change the spindle motor, it can be wired to any VFD, needs just figuring out if it should be wired in star or delta to get the max torque out of it. See if you can find current rating for it, that is important.

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07 May 2023 11:14 - 07 May 2023 11:15 #270848 by pommen
Hi Tommy, thanks for your answer!

Where I live (Norway)  its quite common to have 3x220v without any neutral, I think its called 'IT'. You are quite right that most industrial equipment are 380V, and our industrial buildings often have transitioned to that system (its called 'TN' here). My garage, however does not have it. 

The table does not spin, it is rectangular and firmly bolted to the frame. The rails are new and never used. the former owner started this project by buying the machine that had faulty ways. The machine as supposedly been in production for 5 years before the company that sold it to the former owner threw it out. 
Ball screws on X and Y seems fine as far as i can measure them without powered movement. Z axis is still connected to the Z axis servo (witch has a break) so I have no way of know the state of it(other than it 'looks good') but im not in any position to judge, really.

It has been stored in a garage for quite some time, and according to the seller has been covered with a plastic sheet, witch caused rust due to condensation. Even though it looked kinda bad, im not to worried. I have been scrubbing the frame with soft Scotchbrite and oil all weekend and it comes off quite nicely with very little pitting.
 
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07 May 2023 11:23 #270850 by radom
don't know if its relevant but here is nameplate from similiar spindle DMS 090 AL4
machine-service.ru/uploads/s/m/z/v/mzvbp...mg/full_0ucMXETp.jpg
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07 May 2023 12:07 #270853 by rodw
Replied by rodw on topic DMG DMU 50 Retroftiing(?) help
Plate is very useful. Seems like it is a multivoltage motor.
The Cos theta line tells you if it's star (Y) or Delta (/)
So pick a voltage that works for you ad configure it accordingly (After Tommy Confirms as he knows  about Euro power.)
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08 May 2023 05:33 #270903 by pommen
Thank you so mutch! thats the most amout of info I have seen sofar.
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08 May 2023 07:29 #270906 by rmu
Replied by rmu on topic DMG DMU 50 Retroftiing(?) help

Where I live (Norway)  its quite common to have 3x220v without any neutral, I think its called 'IT'. You are quite right that most industrial equipment are 380V, and our industrial buildings often have transitioned to that system (its called 'TN' here). My garage, however does not have it. 

If norwegien terminology is anywhere nere european standards IT stands for "isolated" and "terra", doesn't really say anything about voltages. Star point of source transformer is isolated, whereas in a "TN" net it is grounded. Around here you see IT type typically in hospitals or datacenters because it can safely tolerate single faults from "hot" to earth.

As always, measure once, cute twice.
 

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08 May 2023 09:32 #270911 by tommylight
Norway, i do recall a documentary where it mentions trains having to switch to Sweden's power, so something is different there, just cant recall what.

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08 May 2023 10:40 #270917 by rmu
Replied by rmu on topic DMG DMU 50 Retroftiing(?) help
Completely off topic, but austria, germany, norway and sweden signed this de.wikisource.org/wiki/%C3%9Cbereinkomme...er_Zugf%C3%B6rderung in 1912, setting a common standard of 15kV alternating current with 16 2/3 Hz. In austria, trains are fed by their own power generating stations and a separate power grid.

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08 May 2023 16:18 #270938 by Aciera
 

something is different there, just cant recall what.

I have no idea but according to this you two seem to have something in common:
www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/three-phase-electric-power/

Where I live (Norway)  its quite common to have 3x220v without any neutral

So if you have 3x220V and your spindle takes 3x220V (if the posted plate is correct) then a 3x220 VFD would work, no? Probably best to ask a local electrician in any case.

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