Beginner question
- Traktor1Tarzan
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22 Jul 2019 18:38 #140213
by Traktor1Tarzan
Beginner question was created by Traktor1Tarzan
Im currently building a cnc mill/router. It will have a system for coolant flooding, 2.2kw spindle, with VFD, 3-axis and nema 23 open loop stepper motors. Im welding the frame myself. I got a pc with i-5, and a decent videocard (compared to ubuntu and linuxcnc requirements)
But the thing i cannot figure out is the stepper controllers. Im new to linux, but wannt go the DIY route. Which is why im going with linuxcnc, not fusion 360.
Im looking for something that wont hinder speed, accuracy and repeatability of the build. And something that may allow me to upgrade the machine with nema 34 steppers and Automatic collect change(if this is possible with linuxcnc).
Im kinda stupid when it comes to stepper controllers so i hope you may give me some direction.
But the thing i cannot figure out is the stepper controllers. Im new to linux, but wannt go the DIY route. Which is why im going with linuxcnc, not fusion 360.
Im looking for something that wont hinder speed, accuracy and repeatability of the build. And something that may allow me to upgrade the machine with nema 34 steppers and Automatic collect change(if this is possible with linuxcnc).
Im kinda stupid when it comes to stepper controllers so i hope you may give me some direction.
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- tommylight
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22 Jul 2019 18:55 #140216
by tommylight
Replied by tommylight on topic Beginner question
Fusion360 and Linuxcnc are not the same thing, although they do work in harmony .... on diferent computers as one uses windows and the other Linux as an operating system.
Fusion is CAM software or computer aided manufacturing, meaning it can draw models that can be output as gcode for use with machine controllers, that iz where Linuxcnc comes in play as it is a machine controler that uses the output of fusion to drive the machine and make those parts a reality.
As for drives and other stuff, there is a wide variety of them that can be used with Linuxcnc, from 10€ a piece for TB6600 ones to 150€ a piece for Lam Technologies.
Some more information on the machine would help, like what is it suposed to do, what are you using for the actual movement ( belts, ball screws, allthread, rack and pinion ), etc.
Changing the collets is not something you do automatically on a machine but even that has been done to some degree with Linuxcnc, the tools can be changed or the tool holders, and that is quite easy to set up in Linuxcnc.
Fusion is CAM software or computer aided manufacturing, meaning it can draw models that can be output as gcode for use with machine controllers, that iz where Linuxcnc comes in play as it is a machine controler that uses the output of fusion to drive the machine and make those parts a reality.
As for drives and other stuff, there is a wide variety of them that can be used with Linuxcnc, from 10€ a piece for TB6600 ones to 150€ a piece for Lam Technologies.
Some more information on the machine would help, like what is it suposed to do, what are you using for the actual movement ( belts, ball screws, allthread, rack and pinion ), etc.
Changing the collets is not something you do automatically on a machine but even that has been done to some degree with Linuxcnc, the tools can be changed or the tool holders, and that is quite easy to set up in Linuxcnc.
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22 Jul 2019 19:12 #140222
by Traktor1Tarzan
Replied by Traktor1Tarzan on topic Beginner question
Thanks for the quick reply.
Its suppose to mill steel(the spindle is probably too weak for high carbon steel), its going to use ballscrews, one on each axis. And 30mm linear rails. Its a fixed gantry design.
Ive heard the TB6600 microstepper controllers may cause issues as theyre unreliable. And I've spent probably 30+ hours trying to figure this issue, but its so many ways to do it, and i struggle to find whats a good waythink to do it.
The ATC will be a upgrade far into the future. But the frame will be made with extra space for it. And the frame will be milled and/or lapped to achieve flatness. Im also getting granite surface plate to be able to measure the structure.
Its suppose to mill steel(the spindle is probably too weak for high carbon steel), its going to use ballscrews, one on each axis. And 30mm linear rails. Its a fixed gantry design.
Ive heard the TB6600 microstepper controllers may cause issues as theyre unreliable. And I've spent probably 30+ hours trying to figure this issue, but its so many ways to do it, and i struggle to find whats a good waythink to do it.
The ATC will be a upgrade far into the future. But the frame will be made with extra space for it. And the frame will be milled and/or lapped to achieve flatness. Im also getting granite surface plate to be able to measure the structure.
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22 Jul 2019 19:18 #140225
by tommylight
Replied by tommylight on topic Beginner question
For steel i would not recomend steppers, you can get servo drives that use step and direction controll so the wiring is the same, but tuning requires a bit more reading and testing.
The best case would be servo drives with analogue +-10V controll and the loop closed in Linuxcnc.
The best case would be servo drives with analogue +-10V controll and the loop closed in Linuxcnc.
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22 Jul 2019 19:33 - 22 Jul 2019 19:56 #140227
by Traktor1Tarzan
Replied by Traktor1Tarzan on topic Beginner question
I was thinking about servos, but theyre very expensive and it will probably be a future upgrade. As the budget now is currently at ~$3000-$3500. And its probably not enough for servos, as all the other parts costs too much.
The cutting area will be 1000x800mm with a 600mm z-axis. I could reduce the size, but i want something very flexible in terms of size of what im going to cut.
Isnt stepper motors good enough as long as they got enough power?
Im not against servos. if i were to go the route, do you have any recommendation on the hardware setup? And thanks for clarifying the part about linuxcnc and fusion.
This will probably end up as an stupid expensive diy build, but im too far down into this rabbit hole. And i know i will make another one in a few years with extra axis.
The cutting area will be 1000x800mm with a 600mm z-axis. I could reduce the size, but i want something very flexible in terms of size of what im going to cut.
Isnt stepper motors good enough as long as they got enough power?
Im not against servos. if i were to go the route, do you have any recommendation on the hardware setup? And thanks for clarifying the part about linuxcnc and fusion.
This will probably end up as an stupid expensive diy build, but im too far down into this rabbit hole. And i know i will make another one in a few years with extra axis.
Last edit: 22 Jul 2019 19:56 by Traktor1Tarzan.
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- Todd Zuercher
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22 Jul 2019 20:03 #140234
by Todd Zuercher
Replied by Todd Zuercher on topic Beginner question
Steppers are great for low speed torque, but are pretty much useless much beyond 1000rpm. For low cost machines needing less than about 400w per axis the stepper is usually the more economic/practical option, there is some over lap in the 400-750w range where either can do the job, but beyond that the servo is the only way to go.
Servos and step motors generally have very different gearing requirements because of the steppers lack of speed. Higher gearing gives the servo a big advantage in resolution, accuracy and speed over a comparable stepper.
Servos and step motors generally have very different gearing requirements because of the steppers lack of speed. Higher gearing gives the servo a big advantage in resolution, accuracy and speed over a comparable stepper.
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22 Jul 2019 20:11 #140237
by Traktor1Tarzan
Replied by Traktor1Tarzan on topic Beginner question
By higher gearing, do you mean the gearing that is provided from the motor and ballscrew interaction?
And would a 750w+ servo need ballscrews thicker than 20mm in diameter?
And would a 750w+ servo need ballscrews thicker than 20mm in diameter?
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22 Jul 2019 20:36 #140243
by Todd Zuercher
Replied by Todd Zuercher on topic Beginner question
The diameter of the screw needed is often more influenced by it's length and maximum RPM, but load and how it is supported at the ends also factor into it.
For example in an application where a 5mm pitch screw works well with a direct drive step motor, you may want to add a 4:1 belt reduction to use a servo.
For example in an application where a 5mm pitch screw works well with a direct drive step motor, you may want to add a 4:1 belt reduction to use a servo.
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- Mike_Eitel
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23 Jul 2019 06:03 #140263
by Mike_Eitel
Replied by Mike_Eitel on topic Beginner question
This guy has some good videos over drive dimensioning
Ok, in German...
Ok, in German...
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23 Jul 2019 07:01 #140266
by pl7i92
Replied by pl7i92 on topic Beginner question
for steel the frame stiffness is the most to care about
NO Gantry
HARD as STONE
NON Flexing Liniar
therfor most are retrofitting a older MAHO at 1500 USD or simular
NO Gantry
HARD as STONE
NON Flexing Liniar
therfor most are retrofitting a older MAHO at 1500 USD or simular
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