moog animatics smart motor - need contract help to configure

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4 years 4 months ago - 4 years 4 months ago #245987 by spumco
By the way, those "Moog" motors are actually Parker SM23xx series servos. 

Parker sells quite a few servos to other companies for rebranding.  They may have Moog-specific interfaces, but I'm pretty sure the guts, and maybe the encoders, are Parkers.

EDIT - updated speculation:

I think those Moogs are, essentially, Parker servos with iBE-series integrated controllers attached.  Probably custom wound, too, since they look like the slotless SM-series but the Moog page indicates they have "15 slots."

I've attached the iBE flyer.  Check out page 7; the power and I/O pinout & diagram look suspiciously like the Moog page, don't they?

I've also got the iBE user manual, but its too big to attach (even zipped).  Feel free to go to 
www.parkermotion.com/products/Rotary_Ser...30_32_80_567_29.html

And scroll to the bottom for the iBE series.  All the manuals and stuff are there.

More importantly, the Parker iWare software is available for download... may be able to talk to the Moog servos through that.
Last edit: 4 years 4 months ago by spumco.
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4 years 4 months ago #246012 by spumco
And another bit of unsolicited advice...  Just get rid of those servos and get something else.

Those iBE/Moog things weren't really designed for step & direction CNC control.  More like point-to-point automation/animatronics installations (think factory machine or Hollywood props).

The onboard controller make installation easier (no big separate drive to mount) for an OEM, but it makes repurposing them rather challenging.

For starters...consider the cabling.  The non-standard DB7 connector handles both 48vdc bus power and the RS232 signals.  Which means you'd need a shielded inner cable for the RS232 conductors, and you'd wind up with some odd-ball Y-shaped termination at the control end (1 leg for DC, 1 leg for signal).

And good luck finding the correct DB7-ish connector with the two big DC bus terminals.  Assuming you got the set at bargain prices, you'll spend more in time and money making cables for them than getting some 'standard-ish' servos.

You could skip the RS232 on the main DB7 connector and use the "Anilink" connector for communications... but that probably limits you to the Moog software.  

Next, the external encoder connection is single-ended, not differential, so it's more subject to noise.  Not the end of the world, but not ideal.

Looking at your machine drawing, I'm thinking you're planning to use 5mm ballscrews.  Direct drive, a 5mm ballscrew needs about 2500rpm to hit 500ipm.  The servos are designed for high RPM.  They'll work, but they're pretty big for the output.

Nail In The Coffin Department:  those are NEMA 23 frame servos, not industry-standard 60mm.  Very, very rare to find those - Clearpath, Parker, and some old Allen-Bradley TLY's.  If you have to replace these motors (everything dies eventually), you're stuck buying NEMA 23 servos.  Or you have to buy a metric 60mm servo and deal with adapting the spigot, bolt pattern, and shaft size.

Parker discontinued them because - in Parker's words - the integrated drive/controller limited performance due to heat.  All else being equal, a separate drive (DC or AC) doesn't have to deal with motor heat so the volts & amps to the motor can be bumped up.

Seriously, you can go on fleabay and find Parker SM232's and BE232's all day long for ~$100.  Most come with cables already attached and bog-standard incremental encoders, and you can drive them with just about anything.  Parker Aries, Allen Bradley Ultra 3k's, Copleys, whatever drive floats your boat.

Suggestion - get some really, really cheap steppers and drives and use those while you build & test out your machine.  And make sure the motor mounts & shaft connections are modular so you can upgrade to metric servos, NEMA servos, or whatever you want.

Rant over...
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4 years 4 months ago #246022 by chris@cnc
I agree Ralph. I played with it last year. These Servos are not made for tools machines. They run like a bag of nuts. No tuning possible, not really step/dir and these rs232 interface is too slow.
One good feature is integrated memory. You could write your own firmware in Arduino style and upload to drive. Now every time if the servo wake up will run this program. And this encoder out can connect to next drive. So all Servos follow the master and no breakout board is needed. Limit switches could connect direct. Maybe useful for tool changer unit, or something else...
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4 years 4 months ago - 4 years 4 months ago #246037 by JPL
I do also agree with most of what's been said above... But since you already have the motors maybe you can try to use them in step/direction mode just to see how good or bad they are for your application.

Here is the procedure taken directly from the manual:

Mode Step with ratio allows the user to define the number of internal counts the motor will move for any given external encode count change.  Minimum Requirements for a move to occur in Mode Follow with ratio:
  • MS must be issued
  • MFMUL must be pre-defined                 (Mode follow multiplier)
  • MFDIV must be pre-defined                   (Mode follow divisor)
  • MSR must be issued                             (Mode Step Ratio)
  • G must be issued for the ratio to take effect

    Example:Suppose you want the motor to move 7 counts for every 39 pulses from an external source:
    • MS                   ‘ set motor to mode step
      MFMUL=7         ‘ set Mode Follow multiplier to 7
      MFDIV=39        ‘ set Mode Follow Divisor to 39
      MSR                 ‘ set motor to Ratio Mode
      G                      ‘ Go (Initiate the above ratio values)
        The Motor will now follow the pulse train at a ratio of 7:39 of internal to external counts




      You will of course need the software for that BUT yes, I can confirm that the iWare software for parker iBe integrated motors will also work with your smartmotor. Also, SMI software used to be free... Maybe ask if they can provide the older (free) version that will definitively work with your 4.15 rev. motors.
       
Last edit: 4 years 4 months ago by JPL.
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4 years 4 months ago #246043 by spumco
And of course, if you test them and they're working... that's valuable information if you decide to sell them.

The trick will be getting a cable with that hairball DB7 pinout. I just found one for $50 on fleabay... but it's a short "Y" adapter cable with a circular connector for the DC bus and a regular DB7 for the RS232 pins.

$50 to test the servos worth it to you?
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4 years 4 months ago #246044 by JPL
The "hairball DB7" is actually a D-Sub 7 pins mixed signal 5+2 (aka combination signals) This is not as hard to find as it seems and not that expensive.

The thing is those connectors are often sold without the pins/sockets for the power signal that need to be bought separately, according to the size of the wire you want to use. This being said, here is one example that come with all the pins and is about $12 each: www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/norco...0M7W2203L401/4311818   You will of course have to build your own cable but this should be doable for anyone who want to build his own cnc machine (hopefully)

As for the other smaller square connectors I would bet those are compatible with TE Ampmodu. Such as this one for the 7 pins: www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/te-co...tors/104257-6/298805    Note that the 7 required female "plugs" are sold separately and can be tricky to use if you don't have the (special) crimping tool.



 
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