simulation

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26 Nov 2019 19:37 - 26 Nov 2019 19:39 #151312 by RobotMatic
Replied by RobotMatic on topic simulation
Dear Andy. It's not about the answers, it's about the approach. The cheap solutions that you offer do not contemplate an operator who only uses the machine and who does not know about installations, configurations, real time. etc.

I hope that in the future Those who assign tasks in the project can understand what I am raising. Linuxcnc works great! I use it on very large machines, and there things change a lot. You put a piece of metal thousands of dollars and can not spoil it. Linuxcnc seems to be only oriented today to solve aspects that are very important but never contemplate in them a machine operator who only uses it and things should be easy.

among other things I teach cnc technology at Ituzaingo's technology pole in Argentina, I know the sim very well, I use it daily, I use Linuxcnc every day, the cheap option that you proposed to me is completely unacceptable in large machines.

I thank you for the time used to respond, of course I am not happy with the answers, but I am happy because they will surely reflect on the issue, although in 10 years no one has realized that Axis cannot test a program, just You can graph a G. code or show me at runtime where the tool is.

thank you thank you thank you
Last edit: 26 Nov 2019 19:39 by RobotMatic.

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26 Nov 2019 19:57 #151316 by Leon82
Replied by Leon82 on topic simulation
Is it safe to assume that the machine boots straight into axis and the operator only sees the axis gui?

So it's impractical to simulate at the machine, but why not have a separate computer for it, you could also use it for a programming station, data collection also

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26 Nov 2019 22:21 #151322 by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic simulation

Dear Andy. It's not about the answers, it's about the approach. The cheap solutions that you offer do not contemplate an operator who only uses the machine and who does not know about installations, configurations, real time. etc.


This seems a fair comment. LinuxCNC was invented by US Government academics, and then picked up by hobbyists. It has not had _that_ much exposure in production environments. I think that Todd uses it in production, but given that he has suggested that his operators have an opinion about which controller they prefer, even they might not be the typical operator.
Stuart has been using a very large machine with LinuxCNC for many years (look at the age of this video
) and he machines very expensive parts of the aircraft industry. But, again, he is an enthusiast-owner-operator, not typical.

I hope that in the future Those who assign tasks in the project can understand what I am raising.

I thought I had made the point that _nobody_ assigns tasks. Nobody feels that they have the right to. What happens is that somebody sees something that could be better, and improves it, to their own specification, for their own reasons.
This is not the best way to make a great software package. But it is what we have.
Do you know any programmers? Do you fancy having a go yourself? Perhaps you can cajole, bribe or pay someone to add the features you want? (I would suggest discussing the concepts on the developers mailing list first, though)
To put this in perspective, I have now written some code for LinuxCNC, but I only started coding in C to fix a particular gap in the capability of LinuxCNC that I wanted to fix for my own purposes.

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27 Nov 2019 01:38 #151328 by RobotMatic
Replied by RobotMatic on topic simulation
I am not a C programmer, I understand your comment, at the moment I am translating the information into Spanish, you can see the topic And I also collaborate detecting problems, you can see my topics -G85, G41, G42 now the simulator. is what I can do. I also promote the use of linuxcnc in my country, but understand, I am not a C programmer, you always say that, do it! as if all we use linuxcnc were programmers. Try to use a compensated trajectory on a lathe, and you will find the problem. If you use a milling machine as your example, the program testing is done outside, in a Cam system, I have already commented. I don't want to bother with this anymore, thanks, for me it was enough, thanks

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27 Nov 2019 14:00 #151348 by Todd Zuercher
Replied by Todd Zuercher on topic simulation
You certainly don't need to be a C programmer (or Python, or any other computer language) to learn how to set up and configure machines with Linuxcnc. I certainly am not. But if you can write and set up G-code you are a programmer of a sort. I have learned how to set up Hal files and program PLC logic, though. And none of the suggestions proposed in this thread would involve any programming other than configuring a hal file and maybe configuring a VCP button or two for the operator to press.

I would argue that Linuxcnc is at least as good or better than any new control you can buy for less than $2000. (Provided you are willing to learn how to and take the time to configure it correctly for your application.)

My experience with "dry run" simulations is that they generally aren't worth the effort to set up, compared with simply looking at the preview screen in Linuxcnc. (Which is already more useful and faster feedback than you get from the "Dry run" button on most Fanuc controls I've used.)
The following user(s) said Thank You: tommylight

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27 Nov 2019 14:16 #151349 by tommylight
Replied by tommylight on topic simulation
I fully agree with Todd.
thank you.

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27 Nov 2019 14:38 #151352 by RobotMatic
Replied by RobotMatic on topic simulation
My 30-year experience as a cnc machine programmer with Fanuc-Fagor-hidenhain-hass-siemens-mitsubishi-hass and a lot of others says the opposite. If you use compensated trajectories, the linuxcnc pre visualizer on a lathe shows you the theoretical trajectory, not the real trajectory along which the tool is going to move, but I don't want to discuss this topic anymore, thank you very much. I don't agree with any of you.

thank you very much

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27 Nov 2019 17:56 #151373 by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic simulation

If you use compensated trajectories, the linuxcnc pre visualizer on a lathe shows you the theoretical trajectory, not the real trajectory along which the tool is going to move,

Good point. I have worked round this sometimes by running the preview once with a zero-diameter tool, then running again with an actual tool and compensation to check that the visualised tool follows the required path. But I am not suggesting that as a solution. I did it when checking some G71 routines.

but I don't want to discuss this topic anymore, thank you very much. I don't agree with any of you.

Are you sure? I am actually quite interested in a discussion on how such a feature should work. I have never said that I think it is a bad idea, or that the current workarounds are better. I have just tried to explain the practical reasons that your request is unlikely to result in the feature happening in the near future. (Mainly that LinuxCNC is rather short of developers at the moment, and those that are active seem to be short of time to devote to the project)

If you no longer want to discuss the subject here, you could add the request with an "enhancement" tag on the tracker: github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/issues

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27 Nov 2019 18:23 #151378 by RobotMatic
Replied by RobotMatic on topic simulation
I feel frustrated, I would like Linuxcnc to be better in the future, that is why every time I find something I communicate it. But I always hit a wall. I just want to collaborate. thanks again.

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27 Nov 2019 19:00 #151382 by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic simulation
That is why I am suggesting that, even if you can't code it yourself, you could describe exactly what such a feature would look like, and how it works on other controls.

I can't imagine, for example, that you have to watch an 8 hour simulation in real time?

Todd mentions that bad things happen with some controls if the point that the simulation ends (or is aborted) is not the starting position of the simulation. This seems to suggest that the simulation is done by disabling the hardware, and then when it is re-enabled the machine can make a rapid move to reconcile the hardware and software positions?
That probably should be avoided....

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