Wiring of oil pump.

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17 Jul 2022 10:43 #247552 by deus
Replied by deus on topic Wiring of oil pump.
That is great spumco. Thank you so so much. What software did you use? I will still to document all my wiring...
I am just in the process of wiring it all up - pretty much per your drawing with a few changes:
  • As you said the neutral is internally fused. I will rewire it and move it to the hot side. I have also a circuit breaker of 6A which should give enough protection.
  • I took your advice on board and connected the pump with my main switch as well as my e-stop circuit (it can't hurt). 
  • I currently have only a relay that has one switch, hence, I was thinking of putting the indicator LED light in parallel to the relay.
  • I only have a four core cable - do you think it is ok (good enough practice) to use the 24V from the MESA that switches the relay to run through the oil pump sensors too (I will read the sensors only when the device is on anyway)? Or better to take the power supply from the MESA field power?

I will put the disco ball and the sound system on a separate circuit when I have the completion party of this cnc. You are invited... if you can make it to OZ. 

Thanks a million!!!

 

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17 Jul 2022 16:16 #247571 by spumco
Replied by spumco on topic Wiring of oil pump.
Hope you find it useful.
I currently have only a relay that has one switch, hence, I was thinking of putting the indicator LED light in parallel to the relay.

Need to be careful here.  The 7i76E has a limit of 350ma per output; get the max current draw for both the relay and the LED and if the combined current draw is lower you're fine.  If not, you can use a second output to drive the LED.

Better option is to buy another relay - either a second single-pole or substitute a double-pole for the single-pole SSR.

Relays are cheap.  Just avoid the 'relay modules' which come on a card with 1/2/.../16 little relays soldered on to a board unless you're really pressed for space.  If one of the relays dies it's a pain to replace it (soldering).

ebay is a great source for DIN-rail relay mounts & miniature card-type relays.  Here's an example of a non-soldered relay module:

el-cheapo relay module

Should work well for controlling various CNC trinkets.  The relays are easily replaceable, inexpensive, and built-in snubber diodes.

Example of what to avoid:

soldered relay module

Ok for really tight mounting, otherwise avoid.

For the ultimate in grown-up industrial relays, you might find stuff like this:

Grown-up relays

Assuming those aren't fakes, that's the sort of stuff used in grown-up equipment.  The "card" relays plug in to the mounts and you can buy a variety of different relay coil voltages and features (gold contacts).  They can be connected/linked together so a single ground wire is needed for multiple relays (coil side), and a single power wire is needed on the contact side.  And you can get them in single, double, triple, and quad contacts - housings are different widths - that all gang together.

Some even have timers that can be plugged in to the relay which turn a standard relay/mount in to a nice multi-function timer relay.

Phoenix is not the only brand, BTW.
What software did you use?

I use TinyCAD; I've already drawn quite a few custom components (Mesa boards & servo drives), so I stick with it despite some other software probably being better.  There's a good discussion on electrical drawing software here:

software
I only have a four core cable - do you think it is ok (good enough practice) to use the 24V from the MESA that switches the relay to run through the oil pump sensors too (I will read the sensors only when the device is on anyway)? Or better to take the power supply from the MESA field power?
  • You can strip the cable open and use the individual conductors if needed.
  • The control relay should be inside your electrical enclosure with individual/discrete wires from the Mesa to the relay(s).
    • (inside enclosure)
      • Individual wires/conductors from Mesa output to relay coil
      • Individual wires from 240v to relay contacts
    • (outside enclosure - known as "field wiring")
      • One 'cable' for 240v from relay contacts to pump (3 conductors plus ground wire)
      • One 'cable' for 24vdc from Mesa field voltage to the sensors and back to Mesa input(s) (2 or 3 conductors)
    • Don't misunderstand drawing as a physical layout - it's an electrical layout.
  • No, it's not good practice to use the Mesa relay control output to power the pump's internal sensor switches.
    • If wired this way the sensors will only be active when the pump is running - a comparatively short period of time.
    • Plus you'll have to add the Mesa's input current draw to the total current seen by the Mesa output.
    • Keep them separate.  If you follow my suggestion above about physical cabling, you'll have no issue powering the sensor switches via the field power.
  • If you're pressed for cables, a good source is bulk or old ethernet cables.  You can chop them up and you've got 8 conductors inside.
    • These are only good for low-voltage, low current signaling circuits or really low-current relay coils
    • Try to find 24AWG cables.  26 or 28 are miserable to make connections if you've got fat fingers.
    • Try to find stranded conductors - solid are ok but they'll eventually break if on a moving/vibrating component
    • The ultimate in cheapo good stuff is 24AWG, stranded, individually and overall shielded ethernet cables. They've got twisted pairs, too.  I use these for signals that are critical and subject to electrical noise (step/direction on drives, analog 0-10v signals to VFDs, etc.)
Good luck.  I've really got to stop procratinating on my own stuff now...
The following user(s) said Thank You: arvidb, deus

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17 Jul 2022 16:30 #247573 by spumco
Replied by spumco on topic Wiring of oil pump.
And another thing...

Label your wires, both on the drawing and the wires themselves.  If you're going to be doing this DIY CNC thing you want to get a label printer, preferably one that prints directly on shrink tube.

Labeling Nirvana

That one's swank, but they have cheaper ones that you can program with your phone or PC.  Epson has the least expensive tape/shrink tube, and they also have the smallest diameter tube available.

How nice is this for troubleshooting?

 

 
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18 Jul 2022 15:55 #247702 by deus
Replied by deus on topic Wiring of oil pump.
Thanks again spumco. Now everything is crystal clear.

I took your advice and ordered the phoenix relay.

I will keep the Ethernet cable in mind but have pretty much everything wired up now.

I bought a label printer as well but did not go for the shrink tube option (which looks very slick btw). I went the cheap route and now my enclosure looks like an advanced minesweeper field, i.e. flags everywhere.

I am intrigued to see your entire enclosure - looks all very tidy. How far along are you with your build?

Cheers

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18 Jul 2022 22:18 #247732 by spumco
Replied by spumco on topic Wiring of oil pump.
I bought a label printer as well but did not go for the shrink tube option (which looks very slick btw). I went the cheap route and now my enclosure looks like an advanced minesweeper field, i.e. flags everywhere.

I hope you don't regret that.  I've found that sticker-flags move and get in the way of everything if the least amount of coolant or oil gets in the enclosure.  If you think you might do another enclosure treat yourself to decent tools and a shrink tube printer.
I am intrigued to see your entire enclosure - looks all very tidy. How far along are you with your build?

My current (personal) build is 99% finished, electrically.  I've repurposed my 4th axis as an ATC motor, so I'll have to fit another drive somewhere when I reinstall my 4th axis.  Maybe in a separate enclosure as it'll be an AC servo that doesn't need a AC-DC power supply.

Other builds  - 4 plasmas, 2 commercial automation devices, powerder-coat ovens... are all finished.

I'm not a professional, BTW.  Self-taught, but a bit OCD and find I enjoy wiring.

Photos 1 & 2 are of my mill control panel.  There's an SBC and a 7i84 for an interface.  I can't seem to find a pic of the main enclosure ATM.

Photos 3,4,5 are of a 6'x12' plasma I built.

Photos 6, 7 are of a sister plasma.  That one is 5x10, but has provisions for a 4th axis and also a VFD to run an interchangable router spindle.  Hence the need for two enclosures.
The following user(s) said Thank You: arvidb, tommylight, deus

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19 Jul 2022 04:41 #247747 by spumco
Replied by spumco on topic Wiring of oil pump.
Found a couple of my main enclosure.  Keep in mind that these were taken some time ago and there's been changes:
  • Switched Copley servo drive to a GS-3 VFD
  • Relocated stepper drives so they're mounted 'normally' on the backplane
  • Finished wiring & labeling everything

Note - the little box things on the outside of the enclosure are my home-brew version of quick-disconnect field wiring ports.  Rather than drilling a million holes through the enclosure, I cut a big hole and stuck a shallow die-cast aluminum box on the side.  A panel would have meant all the wires would need to be tidy inside the main enclosure.

Instead, the box houses the nest of I/O wires and a bunch of GX-12 and GX-16 connectors let me wire everything up inside and then make field connections later.  A single 24V+ and 0V wire go from the Mesa field wiring to the sub-box and all that's coming out are the signal wires back to the 7i76ED.

The upper sub-box is 24VDC I/O, and the lower one is 240VAC to coolant pump, lights, spindle motor fan, etc.

Spindle/encoder cables and stepper power/encoder cables are all run though a panel between the two sub-boxes (not in the photo).  Didn't want any noisy intermediate connectors in those cables... 
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01 Sep 2023 16:42 #279590 by tommylight
Replied by tommylight on topic Wiring of oil pump.
Tang had to leave in a hurry ! :)

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