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- 7i92 + existing c11 multifunction board - Need validation
7i92 + existing c11 multifunction board - Need validation
I've been wading through the forums for the answer but haven't quite come up with an answer after searching, and would love the help of one of the many wizards on here (thanks in advance!). I have a new emco lathe compact 8e that I picked up recently that runs on mach3 with this board (c11 rev 9.9):
cnc4pc.com/c11-multifunction-cnc-board.html
I would like to do a retrofit to a 7i92 (since I have latency issues), get it all running and figured out with LinuxCNC then make the jump to PathPilot since that seems to be the recommended route.
From what I gather you need to ensure the pinout of the BoB matches that of the mesa board. I found the files with the pinouts on mesas site and even found a "7i92_C11x2D.pin" file. This leads me to the conclusion that they are indeed compatible.
Mesa pins P1:
IO Connections for P1
Pin# I/O Pri. func Sec. func Chan Pin func Pin Dir
1 17 IOPort None
14 18 IOPort StepGen 10 Step/Table1 (Out)
2 19 IOPort StepGen 6 Step/Table1 (Out)
15 20 IOPort None
3 21 IOPort StepGen 6 Dir/Table2 (Out)
16 22 IOPort None
4 23 IOPort StepGen 7 Step/Table1 (Out)
17 24 IOPort StepGen 11 Step/Table1 (Out)
5 25 IOPort StepGen 7 Dir/Table2 (Out)
6 26 IOPort StepGen 8 Step/Table1 (Out)
7 27 IOPort StepGen 8 Dir/Table2 (Out)
8 28 IOPort StepGen 9 Step/Table1 (Out)
9 29 IOPort StepGen 9 Dir/Table2 (Out)
10 30 IOPort QCount 1 Quad-A (In)
11 31 IOPort QCount 1 Quad-B (In)
12 32 IOPort QCount 1 Quad-IDX (In)
13 33 IOPort None
I can't find a similar table to the C11 board.
Questions I'm hoping to have some validations on:
1. Will c11 board function for me with the 7i92 (and version I should get, m vs h)?
2. When I switch to pathpilot will I run into any compatibility issues with this combination?
3. My machine utilizes a vfd for spindle control with 0-10 volts and the relays built onto the c11 - any issues here with the 7i92? I read there could be but it was greek to me what others were saying
4. I could get a 5i25 for the same price so the 7i92 seems the better choice, any thoughts?
Thanks for any and all help you're willing to give. Excited to start dipping my toes into LinuxCNC
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The C11 pinouts are not conveniently listed in their manual but can be discerned from the Mach config info there.
PathPilot has several machine configs that can be used, you will need to verify in the .hal files for 440, 1100 etc which is best suited pin-wise. Look for one with variable speed spindle. The 7i92_C11Gx2D.pin file at least has PWM on pin 14 for spindle, which might be possible to convert to 0-10v? Or does the C11 do that for you? (I don't have a vfd spindle yet)
In the end it is likely that a bit of cable munging might be required. When I configured PP with a 7i92 and PMDX-132 I used jumpers one section at a time to verify the correct mapping. The goal for me was to avoid modifying the PathPilot provided .hal files.
Personally I saw no benefit in getting LinuxCNC running first, I went staright to PathPilot 2.0 (and then upgraded it to current version)
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Thanks for your help! For my understanding why would p2 be more probable to use vs p1?
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Thanks for your help and reply.
These PP configs are presumably in the PP OS install somewhere correct?
In regards to the variable speed spindle control and 'converting pin 14 to 0-10v" I'm not sure I quite follow. But the c11 documentation does say the below which leads me to believe that if the 7i92 can create a pwm signal to the proper pin it does the rest for me. Do I understand this correctly?
Built-in Variable Speed Control.
It has an optoisolated analog 0-10VDC output that will convert a PWM signal into an
analog signal that can be used to command a commercial VFD. This analog can be
adjusted using on-board potentiometer, so this board can be adjusted to other voltages.
5.2 Variable Speed Control. (Pin 14)
This function lets you control your spindle with PWM and direction signals, as if it was an
axis motor. It converts the PWM signal into an analog (0-10VDC).
A Variable Frequency Drive or Inverter works by modifying the frequency for AC motors.
Most of these devices with an external analog signal (0-10VDC). That is, if there is 5VDC
coming into through the control signal, the motor will run at 50% of full speed, if there was
10VDC, the motor will run at 100% of full speed. If there is no signal coming out, then the
motor will stop.
This function can also be used on many DC motor controllers by replacing the
potentiometer that controls the speed.
As far as cable munging and jumpers go, you're saying you just connected one set of wires (ie stepper motors) at a time to see if they started turning, then would modify hal until they did? Would it be possible for you to share your hal/ other files that I may learn how you matched the two up? That might help me frame my mind towards the c11 board.
When I go to purchase PP I read else where on the forum this is the one to get:
tormach.com/pathpilot-v20-upgrade-38249.html
It seems though that this one would be the better option (or does it not matter)?
tormach.com/pcnc-1100-pathpilot-upgrade-...re-manual-38706.html
Presumably regardless your type of machine you're able to swap between the mill/lathe interfaces easily?
Thanks again.
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The PathPilot install provides you with all their machines as a choice, so various lathe and mill models.
I had to make a custom cable to align what PP wanted with what my BOB wanted, not all the signals lined up in the standard 1-1 cable.
The reason for suggesting P2 is that the PP hal files all reference P2, If/when you update PP it overwrites your modified config, so the less editting the better
![:-) :-)](/media/kunena/emoticons/smile.png)
Re: motor/vfd I think you are correct. This thread seems to give more speicifics one what you need to change to use PWM to Voltage with PP. I can't help with that, my spindle is either on or off
![:-( :-(](/media/kunena/emoticons/sad.png)
As you can see from the below, the cable pins differ between Tormach machines (the more modern ones use a custom board so do not apply at all). A quick glance at your C11 board lead me to say you need a custom cable to get the pins aligned with what Tormach expects. You would then use the Tormach supplied .bit files, not the one for C11. On the other hand you could edit the PAthPilot .hal file and 'fix' the pinouts that way. For me that was too daunting a task to start with. I might get ambitious later, first want to get my machine running.
440 mill pinout (5i25/7i92)
# 5i25
#
# Configuration pin-out:
#
# Mill Function DB25 Mesa Type Chan Function IO
#
# Spindle Enable 1 0 IOPort None
# Spindle Speed 14 1 IOPort PWM 0
# X Step 2 2 IOPort StepGen 0 Step (Out)
# Estop Reset 15 3 IOPort None (In)
# X Direction 3 4 IOPort StepGen 0 Dir (Out)
# Charge Pump 16 5 IOPort StepGen 4 Step (Out)
# Y Step 4 6 IOPort StepGen 1 Step (Out)
# Coolant 17 7 IOPort None (Out)
# Y Direction 5 8 IOPort StepGen 1 Dir (Out)
# Z Step 6 9 IOPort StepGen 2 Step (Out)
# Z Direction 7 10 IOPort StepGen 2 Dir (Out)
# A Step 8 11 IOPort StepGen 3 Step (Out)
# A Direction 9 12 IOPort StepGen 3 Dir (Out)
# X Limit 10 13 IOPort None (In)
# Y Limit 11 14 IOPort None (In)
# Z Limit 12 15 IOPort None (In)
# Probe In 13 16 IOPort QCountIdx 0 Idx (In)
Other mill models:
# 5i25
# Configuration pin-out:
#
# IO Connections for P3
# Mill Function Pin# I/O Pri. func Sec. func Chan Pin func Pin Dir
#
# Spindle Speed 1 0 IOPort StepGen 4 Step/Table1 (Out)
# Coolant 14 1 IOPort None (Out)
# X Direction 2 2 IOPort StepGen 0 Dir/Table2 (Out)
# Estop Reset 15 3 IOPort None (In)
# X Step 3 4 IOPort StepGen 0 Step/Table1 (Out)
# Spindle Dir 16 5 IOPort None (Out)
# Y Direction 4 6 IOPort StepGen 1 Dir/Table2 (Out)
# Charge Pump 17 7 IOPort PWM 0 PWM (Out)
# Y Step 5 8 IOPort StepGen 1 Step/Table1 (Out)
# Z Direction 6 9 IOPort StepGen 2 Dir/Table2 (Out)
# Z Step 7 10 IOPort StepGen 2 Step/Table1 (Out)
# A Direction 8 11 IOPort StepGen 3 Dir/Table2 (Out)
# A Step 9 12 IOPort StepGen 3 Step/Table1 (Out)
# X Limit 10 13 IOPort None (In)
# Y Limit 11 14 IOPort None (In)
# Z Limit 12 15 IOPort None (In)
# Probe In 13 16 IOPort None (In)
#
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The early versions used a variable frequency to control the analog out
where version G or greater use a PWM signal
This is why there are two C11 bitfiles, the C11x2D for older C11 versions and the C11Gx2D
for newer C11 versions.
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Thanks for pointing that out, I think I did notice that. The c11g I found in another thread on here, completely different form factor than my c11, so I would definitely reference/use the c11x2d version. I'll just need to research how to make the spindle work
![:) :)](/media/kunena/emoticons/smile.png)
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To clarify what you're saying on a custom cable and referencing the tables below for the 440mill:
the column that says "db25" and column labeled "mesa" would mean that tormach uses pin 14 on their BoB for spindle speed, and mesa expects that to be on pin 1? So the bit file is what makes that decision.
To continue that example for a custom cable (assuming for example c11 used pin 14 for spindle speed, and mesa pin required pin 1) I would simply wire pin 14 from c11 to pin 1 on the mesa side. It might be opposite what I listed.
I feel it would almost be easier to do a 'find and replace in the hal file to make the changes virtually. I don't know how much surgery that would be though.
Already learning alot - thanks for the help gents
![:) :)](/media/kunena/emoticons/smile.png)
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- 7i92 + existing c11 multifunction board - Need validation