Very basic questions

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05 Nov 2019 02:10 #149567 by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic Very basic questions
You can use a parallel port for stepper motors or step/dir controlled servos.

A Bridgeport is getting a bit big for steppers (though it has to be admitted that when Bridgeport made their own CNC mills, they used steppers)

If you don't want to use steppers then the control electronics moves away from the bit-banged parport, either to EPP-controlled cards, or PCI or Ethernet.

I have generally started at the other end, seeing what motors I could find cheap on eBay, then working backwards towards the PC.

I converted a Harrison milling machine to CNC with 750W servo motors and that works nicely. A friend has converted the same machine with steppers, (NEMA 34) and that seems to be working. But the BP is a fair bit bigger.

I actually have the drives and motors from a CNC Harrison M250 lathe that I could do with getting rid of, but to be honest they are huge weak old steppers and large old unreliable stepper drivers, so can't really recommend them.

If you are converting a mill to CNC you probably need to swap the screws to ball-screws. Even if you don't do that immediately, design your conversion around an assumption ta=hat you will.

Lathes can get away with not having ball-screws a bit better, just because of the way lathes work, little lathe work involves a mid0cur direction reversal.

I have done three conversions of my own now, and one for someone else (in one day, at a meetup in Stuttgart). The first was the typical steppers and aluminium plate mounts, the second was a bit more elegant, and the last one cost me more in custom castings than the total cost of the first one.

So we can advise you how to do this, but it might help to know how much you expect to spend. I doubt you can do the Bridgeport for less than £300. But you could spend 10x that if you wanted.

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05 Nov 2019 09:12 #149582 by UKenGB
Replied by UKenGB on topic Very basic questions
Thank you. All valuable information. Although having worked with computers and motorcycles all my life and understand what CNC is all about, I lack any direct experience or knowledge of what actual bits are required. Hence my very basic questions.

Over the few years I've had the Bridgeport I have become increasingly frustrated by not being able to tell it to make what I can design on computer. In essence, my aim is to be able to computer design and then machine fork yokes for motorcycles. Not as a business, but for my own projects. That's not all, but best describes my requirements.

With that in mind I began looking into this conversion some time ago and realised it would likely be cheaper to just buy a used CNC machine of some description - but where's the fun in that. :-)

So I am resigned to the conversion being a more expensive option, but I will be happier keeping my Bridgeport and using an old PC I have kicking around to control it and I'm forming a picture in my mind as to what I need and already planned to convert to ball-screws.

Another really basic question then, what is the difference between stepper motors and step/dir controlled servos? Can either/both be driven from the built-in parallel port of my PC? Without EPP? Does EPP require different hardware or is it not just a different software driver?

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05 Nov 2019 15:14 #149604 by Todd Zuercher
Replied by Todd Zuercher on topic Very basic questions
From the control's perspective there is no functional difference, they both run off of the same kind of signal. Servos will usually benefit more from fast hardware generated step pulles, because of their greater speeds and high resolutions.
However servos and step motors have very different torque profiles. Step motors often have more low speed torque, but they quickly fizzle out and loose power with greater speed. Servos on the other hand can usually provide their rated torque all the way up to their maximum speed.
Servos also may have the option of providing position feedback to the control.
Servos will also usually need to be tuned for their application. This may or may not be a simple affair. Some servo drives can auto tune themselves reasonably well, but most will at a minimum require temporarily interfacing with a PC (usually with Windows) and then be configured using the manufacturers software.
Steppers are generally pretty much plug and play. (you might need to set micro-steps and motor current limits.)

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05 Nov 2019 15:35 #149608 by OT-CNC
Replied by OT-CNC on topic Very basic questions

With that in mind I began looking into this conversion some time ago and realised it would likely be cheaper to just buy a used CNC machine of some description - but where's the fun in that. :-)

So I am resigned to the conversion being a more expensive option, but I will be happier keeping my Bridgeport and using an old PC I have kicking around to control it and I'm forming a picture in my mind as to what I need and already planned to convert to ball-screws.


I would recommend finding a Bridgeport that is already cnc. One with bad electronics ready for upgrade. Often they can be found cheap depending on where you live in the world. The difficult part to make if you want to do your own conversion is the quill drive. That requires adding a ballscrew to the front of the head. Don't even think about driving the Z from the manual handle end.

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05 Nov 2019 15:41 #149611 by pl7i92
Replied by pl7i92 on topic Very basic questions
at the time of the construction on this mashines back in the 80's no one even thaught about CNC
and the steel mold making the basement is still somhere in the world making Mashines

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05 Nov 2019 21:02 #149652 by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic Very basic questions

my aim is to be able to computer design and then machine fork yokes for motorcycles.

My machines often make motorcycle parts, but not yokes as the bike I make parts for was made in 1921 and doesn't have forks, it has a front swingarm....

Another really basic question then, what is the difference between stepper motors and step/dir controlled servos? Can either/both be driven from the built-in parallel port of my PC? [/quote]

Yes, both can be controlled with the parallel port of a PC. I wouldn't, but you can :-)

Actually, you might as well start of with P-port + cheap breakout board, and some steppers. But you might find that (like me) you learn enough from that to know how you ought to have done it in the first place ;-)

Many servo drives require analogue +/-10V velocity control. That is something that you can't readily do with a parallel port. But LinuxCNC has a number of compatible interfaces that can do that, if you get a deal on some motors and drives. The drawback is that they cost $200 or more.

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06 Nov 2019 13:33 #149712 by UKenGB
Replied by UKenGB on topic Very basic questions
So if not the parallel port, what? What would be the superior interface to/from the PC?

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06 Nov 2019 13:47 #149714 by Leon82
Replied by Leon82 on topic Very basic questions
You can use a Mesa card in a pci or pci Express slot in the computer or an Ethernet one using a cable

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06 Nov 2019 15:48 - 06 Nov 2019 15:54 #149728 by RotarySMP
Replied by RotarySMP on topic Very basic questions
I tossed up converting a manual machine, but eventually decided to buy a 1985 tool room CNC with a dead controller. You already heard the recommendation to look for a CNC bridgeport with a dead controller. Old Interacts are cheap as dirt. If it has decent ballscrews, it is big advantage over modding your manual Bridgeport (which is probably worth more than an interact). Even better would be a machine which already has glass scale encoder position feedback in to the axis, so you can do a closed loop system. Old Hurco, Fadal, Maho etc

For my mill I used MESA 5i25/7i77/ to interface into the existing analog servos, and relay panel for gearbox, tool release, spindle start stop etc. As Andy said, the parallel port is okay for a little open loop router, but for a real mill, doing a closed loop servo set up, with enough I/O available for pendant, tool height setter, probe, coolant, mist, spindle speed control, fourth axis, tool release etc is a better solution.
Mark
Last edit: 06 Nov 2019 15:54 by RotarySMP.

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06 Nov 2019 17:50 #149739 by UKenGB
Replied by UKenGB on topic Very basic questions
Ah, so parallel port is not ideal and there's actual purpose designed PCI(e) cards to overcome the parallel port limitations. So that means the PC needs a spare PCI slot. That's what I was trying to determine.
The following user(s) said Thank You: rodw

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