What would you do ? Not the TV show!

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30 Jul 2020 19:17 #176558 by bevins

That is exactly what should normally be done, alas, the contracts are not worth their wight in paper here.
Non the less, i will try to do something like that, and if they complain, i will just decline.
Thank you.


Ask for down payment half up front. Then they pay by hour. So if they don't pay, don't work.
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30 Jul 2020 19:34 #176560 by tommylight

If you do end up doing this, please post a thread on it. To retrofit a 28m industrial line with hundreds of actuators and sensors is a hell of a job to do solo.

Will do for sure, even if they do not allow me to take pictures, i will try to describe things as best as i can, still working on doing a better job at explaining things. I was very bad at it! :)

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30 Jul 2020 19:37 #176561 by tommylight

Ask for down payment half up front. Then they pay by hour. So if they don't pay, don't work.

That is the only way i do these jobs, to much time and effort to just have it go to waste.

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01 Aug 2020 08:17 #176759 by Mike_Eitel
A last BUT
I think that you are in a smaller market (country) and a not happy customer will easily ruin bussines.
My guts say they do not behave professionall the way the handle their suppliers duties today, so i gues they will never become. Independent what kind of paperwork you do.
Hope Ivm wrong.
Mike
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01 Aug 2020 08:47 #176760 by tommylight

I think that you are in a smaller market (country) and a not happy customer will easily ruin bussines.
My guts say they do not behave professionall the way the handle their suppliers duties today, so i gues they will never become. Independent what kind of paperwork you do.
Hope Ivm wrong.

You are right on all counts, it is a small market of 1.7 Million people, not much professionalism for anything but there are some companies that do professional work for export only, and i hate paperwork so i delegate that part.

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27 Oct 2020 21:31 #187475 by aleksamc
I have some experiance in similar job and I must say:
1) customer made big mistake - he bought wrong disassabmled line (without any marks for wiring).
From this point this machine becomes scrap metal.
2) this machine doesn't have project and electrical diagrams - that will help you much, so without it, you can't make anything with that wires.
3) Software is lost - realy, it's not the biggest problem that could be for automation programmer, as me, if first 2 steps are OK (but they are not). BUT if nobody know to the smallest details how that machine should work in steps then, and I'm sure they not, then you can damage something when you will adjust system at the and.
4) Are you work there alone or with somebody? How you are going to find ends on wire alone in big line?

So I think, that this project is dead and it's better not to work on it. But I don't know how it is sophisticated.
What devices does it have and how many of them (asynchronouse motors or servodrives, freaquency drives, etc).
Look at PLC, how many digital inputs/outputs are connected, how many analog inputs/outputs.
If you have a lot of analog outputs/inputs or if you have servodrives, or freaquency drives that are connected to modbus, than this projects is sophisticated and it will be very hard to run it.

But if you have no choise and you must do this job (I hope it's not, and everybody have choice).
As for me, you need to change batteries and use that old PLCs installed, it's not better way but chipest one, and customer will not anderstand your decision to change to new hardware (and realy he will be right).
I must say, that old PLCs are use ugly programmable language similar to assambler. For me, it's very hard language.

If project is not sophisticated (there is some motors that should rotates constantly), then it will be comparatively easy to run it, even if it's big.

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27 Oct 2020 21:37 #187476 by aleksamc
So after looking that line one more time, it doesn't matter how is easy or hard it will be for you, you need to convince customer, that it's very hard and high-risk job and to encrease price for this job much.
But if you lose, and customer will not belive that it's hard job, then F**k them off (in mind of course), you will not earn there any good money.
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27 Oct 2020 21:45 #187478 by tommylight
Thank you all for some very good advice, much appreciated.
So far that project is dead as they never bothered to call back. Probably because as i mentioned in the original post one of the guys was convinced it is a 200 to 300 Euro job and i asked for a rough estimate of 3500 to 5000 for labour only.

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28 Oct 2020 11:47 #187550 by Mike_Eitel
Already on his judgement you see he is not an professional.

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28 Oct 2020 19:23 #187607 by tommylight

Already on his judgement you see he is not an professional.

You are right, there are plenty of them here, but luckily there are others that are reasonable.
The simple math in this case would be:
The power cord and the power connector for such a machine will cost way more than 300 Euro.... :)

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