calssicladder and ethercat

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04 Apr 2022 05:28 #239224 by bkt
in this period I was able to experience the ability of classicladder .... I sincerely regret not having given weight to this component before now ..... however I wonder if it is possible to use classicladder also to drive motors for simple positioning.

I saw the example of the tool change, where you simply go to use stepgen by increasing the count by a certain number of steps ....... now in the case of using ethercat csp profile how could the matter be solved? using an encoder-offsett componenet? an axis offset? Because for sure velocity regulation in these case can be important ..... I think about some simply positioning of some linear axis that can be change one time every power on of machinery or in other situation when axis have only 2 position and they never change .... so It can be nice not interest these axis on a complex gcode.

For sure that simply positioning would be run in same moment of gcode, when gcode run axis x-y-z and classicladder axis a-b for example.

Really not see a way for in these moment and not test a lot Grotius software for immagine if can be or not. Not try to do with my system because think is difficult to manage mdi-man-auto state machine for disconnect a-b from mdi-man-auto mechanism.

Every suggest was appreciated.
bkt

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04 Apr 2022 07:33 #239227 by db1981
Replied by db1981 on topic calssicladder and ethercat
to use CSP Mode for auxilary axis that are controlled by classicladder or an component you would need to code an "path" (trajectory) generator with acceleration, decceleration, constant velocity .... The Drive needs an new value in every com cycle.

I often use PP Mode (Profile Position) for this to simplify things.
In PP Mode you only have to handle drive_enable, tell the target pos and set the start_position bit.
Path generation is done in the drive.
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04 Apr 2022 15:04 #239259 by bkt
Replied by bkt on topic calssicladder and ethercat
sorry for the ignorance ... but at this point the zero axis must be managed by the drive or can it be managed by Lcnc?

regards
bkt

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04 Apr 2022 16:55 #239265 by db1981
Replied by db1981 on topic calssicladder and ethercat
if you mean "homing" with "zero axis" :

there are many ways, it can be done with lcnc throught you component / ladder, ob by the drive itself with the predefined homing functions.
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04 Apr 2022 18:30 #239271 by bkt
Replied by bkt on topic calssicladder and ethercat
Yea ... homin witth classic ladder is done via HALUI .... ok.

Unfortunalely my drive not support PP mode .... so need to find other "uncommon" solution .... for sure other solution is change drive .... but not possible because no other brands in my stock .... and buy other need too mutch time ....

Actually I try via jog but axis need to move contiuosly from 0 to 100mm with 1sec pause ... and other servo of machine need to move via gcode or mdi subroutine .... so jog during auto or MDI .... I think to encoder-offset but need to change velocity ... from 0 to 100mm one vel, and from 100 to 0 other vel ....

Maybe is possible to use OFFSET comp .... but in these case add or subtract OFFSET (and it can be) can be only in rapid velocity ..... so need to use limit2 or limit3 .... MAYBE there a re a more simple and easy solution???

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04 Apr 2022 19:10 #239274 by db1981
Replied by db1981 on topic calssicladder and ethercat
you can use the component simple_tp for controlling a standalone axis.
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05 Apr 2022 05:44 - 05 Apr 2022 05:53 #239302 by bkt
Replied by bkt on topic calssicladder and ethercat
Never see ..... so need to connect simple-tp.N.target-pos and simple-tp.N.current-pos to myethercatdrive.commanded.pos and myethercatdrive.feedback.pos only? maybe need to enable and disable motion.commanden.pos and motion.feedback.pos .... but seems a right suggest ... thanks


I thought about it .... I know that using simple_tp does not allow me to use the homing of halui .... correct? If I use simple_tp I have the impression that I will have to do the homing directly to the drive is this correct or is it possible to switch between emcmot and simple_tp simply on the command and feedback signals?

regards
bkt
Last edit: 05 Apr 2022 05:53 by bkt.

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05 Apr 2022 06:08 #239304 by bkt
Replied by bkt on topic calssicladder and ethercat
My idea .... can connect external-offset to simple_tp fake axis? so can use my y.axes with normal when need plus if need I can enable and disable external offset to reach position needed position of fake.axis ... is a right think?

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05 Apr 2022 07:52 #239307 by db1981
Replied by db1981 on topic calssicladder and ethercat
puuh, there are so many ways....

does the aux axis needs homing and an position controller (pid) ?
the normal use case for csp should be that the controll loop is closed in the drive.

So with simple_tp you do an "blind" control of the axis, but you are able to add an pid after it....

I think i need to understand the mechanical situation and the way how you would be able to control these axis (gcode, switch, key...) , to create an better answer.
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05 Apr 2022 08:12 - 05 Apr 2022 08:25 #239308 by bkt
Replied by bkt on topic calssicladder and ethercat
quite simple .... servomotor -> planetary gearbox -> gear -> rack ..... rack is connected to linear guide .... is a a poor mechanism for trasfert a product every 6sec in one position to other .... it could be done with pneumatic cylinder ... but at least need to change final destination every 2 or 3dd so I decide to use servo that I have at stock ....

for simplicity it is better to have a homing and possibility to use MDI command or standard jog (return to zero pos in case of emergency for example) .... that's why I was evaluating the offset encoder .... in fact that puts in offset in every state condition Lcnc (already tested and already crashed with my robot last year .... the biggest problem is that I don't have the ability to use PP mode so I have to use CSP ....

After these I have 3 axis on trivkins for mill plastic product ..... tranfert and mill are mechanical unrelated and only need to run with same pc and Lcnc istance ..... because urelated single axis and mill classicladder command was the best way to do .... but need to unlink single axis from Lcnc intefaces and MDI/AUTO/MANUAL state machine ....
Last edit: 05 Apr 2022 08:25 by bkt.

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