THC - out of ideas

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18 Mar 2022 02:08 #237598 by snowgoer540
Replied by snowgoer540 on topic THC - out of ideas
If you don’t NEED Debian 11, you could give this a try:

forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc...indows-users?start=0

It has driver support for everything I’ve installed it on so far.  The process should be pretty easy to follow.  It seems a lot of your angst surrounds the OS install and probably has less to do with QtPlasmaC.

If you do the package install, updates can be installed with two terminal commands.  

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18 Mar 2022 02:54 #237600 by tommylight
Replied by tommylight on topic THC - out of ideas
I still do not get it why would anyone advise new users to compile kernels and LinuxCNC.
At least ask if they are comfortable using the terminal, then all is good.
Is it simple to compile it = yes
Is it simple for windows users = oh hell no.
Case in point, using windows for 10 or 20 years will not ever teach you to mind the upper/lower case while typing, Linux will do that the first time you open a terminal.
So, the main questions are:
Does 2.9/Master work on the official 2.8.2 ISO?
Does 2.9/Master work on the Linux MX guide by Snowwy?
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I will give another go to Debian 11 non free, and Mint 20.3 before Monday and report the results back. I will test 2.9/Master version only, there is to much changed in Python 3 so .... but i will give it at least a small try with 2.8 also.
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18 Mar 2022 03:00 #237603 by rodw
Replied by rodw on topic THC - out of ideas

I will give another go to Debian 11 non free, and Mint 20.3 before Monday and report the results back. I will test 2.9/Master version only, there is to much changed in Python 3 so .... but i will give it at least a small try with 2.8 also.


Yes, you can't run 2.8 on  Bullseye.
The best how to out there for Bullseye is the one James did for QTPYVCP
www.qtpyvcp.com/install/bullseye.html
But he also has built an install script that follows the same method with some nice prompts etc but I have never used it.
github.com/joco-nz/lcnc-bullseye-installer
Try his installer, Tommy.
 
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18 Mar 2022 03:37 #237608 by tommylight
Replied by tommylight on topic THC - out of ideas

The best how to out there for Bullseye is the one James did for QTPYVCP
www.qtpyvcp.com/install/bullseye.html

Oh yeah, i did try that and it worked perfectly, but the Probe Basic stuff did not work. Cr@p, getting senile here, it's 4:24AM here, eyes burning like hell....
So onto Mint ... and it did not boot, looks like the poor USB stick got tired of working but not yet decided to give up the ghosts as Mint 20.2 boots, Debian 11.2 non free boots, Mint 20.3 Mate is missing something, Mint 20.3 Cinnamon does boot till it complains about not finding the /dev/sr0 .... despite me screaming at it that it is plugged in ! :) Guess the bootloader does not understand Albanian nor English. :)
Back on tracks,
No scripts, i only try to provide really simple solutions to have LinuxCNC up and running for new users, the Mint 19.3 was a nice example. More advanced users have no problem installing it even on Arch Linux.

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18 Mar 2022 07:08 #237617 by rodw
Replied by rodw on topic THC - out of ideas
Mint 20.3 is only running the 5.4 kernel which is way too old to work with modern hardware. Debian Bullseye is 5.10 and Debian unstable where linuxcnc is runs 5.15. (Current stable kernel is 5.16.14 released 11 March)
My network NIC requires Kernel 5.9 or above.

Mint 20.3 also runs the wrong version  of  Python 3. Once again its too low a version.
From memory Bullseye runs Python 3.9.
Debian unstable has had the best hardware support of all the debian distros I've tried.
It was hard to say goodbye to Mint.

So all of these things mean that Mint is no longer suitable for Linuxcnc and is the thing that sent me to Bullseye in the first place. Originally I started with Mint 17.3 and had to compile the kernel (before the stretch ISO existed) so compiling linuxcnc was a walk in the park by comparison. Then one day Linuxcnc advanced the minimum Python3 version past what I could install and I could never get it sorted.

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18 Mar 2022 07:14 #237618 by rodw
Replied by rodw on topic THC - out of ideas
Tommy, Probe basic is still a Python 2.7 application so it is not able to be used on Bullseye. There is a Python3 development version somewhere. I'll see if I can find it.

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18 Mar 2022 07:26 #237619 by rodw
Replied by rodw on topic THC - out of ideas
Re Probe BAsic, Jame's script above has an option to install a development install of it. We've asked if there is an official installer yet,

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18 Mar 2022 09:52 - 18 Mar 2022 12:12 #237624 by snowgoer540
Replied by snowgoer540 on topic THC - out of ideas

I still do not get it why would anyone advise new users to compile kernels and LinuxCNC.
At least ask if they are comfortable using the terminal, then all is good.
Is it simple to compile it = yes
Is it simple for windows users = oh hell no.
Case in point, using windows for 10 or 20 years will not ever teach you to mind the upper/lower case while typing, Linux will do that the first time you open a terminal.


I agree Tommy, new users shouldnt be compiling kernels, and should probably stick to package installs of LCNC. The guide I gave gives both click-by-click options, and recommends new people stay with the package installs which can be upgraded with 2 terminal lines, or the synaptic package manager if you're more comfy that way.

Really though, they're going to get comfortable with terminal no matter what. But, that said, the guide I made to is literally like baking a cake. It's every button click and command line, when to type it in, how to type it in, what you should and shouldn't do, etc.

It even has a whole page dedicated to telling them the need to know tips like "terminal commands are case sensitive" and gives several examples of how "plasma" "Plasma" "pLasma" are all different directories to Linux.

I made the guide because the official iso is SO terrible to work with I would never recommend any user use it let alone a new user. The wifi experience alone is enough to make you want to smash a computer like they do to the printer in "Office Space".

At any rate, so long as you can follow simple directions, the guide should make it pretty easy and make starting with LCNC a bit more painless.

So, the main questions are:
Does 2.9/Master work on the official 2.8.2 ISO?
Does 2.9/Master work on the Linux MX guide by Snowwy?



I dont know the answer to the top one, I havent used the official iso in a long time.
For the second, yes, my guide was made with QtPlasmaC as the example GUI (biased, I know :) ) using it will net you a working 2.9 install.
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Last edit: 18 Mar 2022 12:12 by snowgoer540.
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18 Mar 2022 10:24 #237626 by rodw
Replied by rodw on topic THC - out of ideas
I don't think anyone has been talking about compiling kernels for a number of years. That stopped when the Stretch ISO with Preempt_RT was released.
Somewhere on the forum there is a howto that explained how to do it. It was as detailed as Snowy's MX instructions. It was written just after I compiled the kernel as a new user with a lot of help on the forum. I'm told it was inspired by my journey.

I had no choice. Thats what you had to do to get the PREEMPT_RT kernel for Mesa ethernet cards. Was I happy? Hell No! It only took 5 hours to compile! Did I know that when I bought my 7i76e? No not at all.

Once I got the hang of it, it was only about 10 lines of code and I had it scripted thanks to PCW's guidance.

More to the point:
1. Does the official 2.8 ISO based on Debian Buster have driver support for your hardware?
2. Does MX Linux have driver support for your hardware?
3. How far do you want to deviate from Debian given Linuxcnc is now in the Debian repositories?

In 12 months, the Debian release will be Bookworm and 2.9 should be the release version if the devs sync to Debian.  Why would you bother with any other distro but Debian? Why not stay in the fold now?

But compiling Linuxcnc is a useful skill. Its only 3-4 commands that are well documented. Then you can install Linuxcnc on almost any distro or platform. It lets you trial test branches and more. Heck I even have the Debian distro of Bullseye and Linuxcnc running on a Raspberry Pi.

To say today that a user shouldn't compile linuxcnc is rubbish. There was a time that every plasmac user had to do that and we had to  clone Phil's repo.  We all survived and the software has grown.

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18 Mar 2022 13:30 #237635 by tommylight
Replied by tommylight on topic THC - out of ideas
Moving this discussion here, as it has plenty of nice info on installing LinuxCNC on other Linux distros,
forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc...d-compiling-linuxcnc
It will be easier to find.

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