Probe Basic - ATC sim parameter question

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17 Dec 2022 03:26 #259703 by Lcvette
I don't know on the comp thing. For me at least, unless the Tool table and carousel comp can handle the pocket assignments automatically where user doesn't have to enter anything for pocket, I would consider it a step in the wrong direction. I have my entire tool library of 100+ tools in my tool table, and when we first started this project it seemed the number of pockets used would determine the Tool table tool count. Which meant I would be crippled to 12 tools. Having to enter to data anytime you changed from the allowed 12 tools was not something I was going to contend with, I change or the carousel daily a few times for various jobs. So I am curious how it's come along since then. As for the widget, it will remain in probe basic. I use it frequently for sanity checks. But then again with 100+ tools to keep up with things are very different then if you only have enough to fill the platter. If a user does not want to use it, it is simple enough to remove in a personal version. It certainly won't be for everyone and without an atc it makes no sense at all. Probably need to set that tab from the uni or custom config yml file perhaps. I'll have a look at that.

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17 Dec 2022 04:20 #259705 by COlger81
What parameters are you using to be able to have 100+ tools?

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17 Dec 2022 04:27 #259706 by COlger81
We appreciate the time and effort put forward by you guys. The lack of updates and documentation make it tough to have confidence running expensive machines with the UI. I'll keep following up and moving the ball forward as much as i can.

Thank You

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17 Dec 2022 05:03 #259707 by Lcvette
@COLger81 That's my point, I don't need 100+ parameters, just the count of my carousel pockets which is 12.  I call actual tool numbers at tool change not pockets.  So I may call M6 T876 and it's fine with that, the macros version tracks tools and simply stores the Tool number in the var file slot. It records changes to the platter, and uses a random assignment when changing tools. This method allows my fusion tool library and machine tool library to be identical up to 99,999 unique tools. All predefined in the tool table with offsets,  and description etc.  It makes job so a breeze.

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17 Dec 2022 05:14 #259708 by spumco

I don't know on the comp thing. For me at least, unless the Tool table and carousel comp can handle the pocket assignments automatically where user doesn't have to enter anything for pocket, I would consider it a step in the wrong direction. I have my entire tool library of 100+ tools in my tool table, and when we first started this project it seemed the number of pockets used would determine the Tool table tool count. Which meant I would be crippled to 12 tools. Having to enter to data anytime you changed from the allowed 12 tools was not something I was going to contend with, I change or the carousel daily a few times for various jobs. So I am curious how it's come along since then.

As for the widget, it will remain in probe basic. I use it frequently for sanity checks. But then again with 100+ tools to keep up with things are very different then if you only have enough to fill the platter. If a user does not want to use it, it is simple enough to remove in a personal version. It certainly won't be for everyone and without an atc it makes no sense at all. Probably need to set that tab from the uni or custom config yml file perhaps. I'll have a look at that.
 

YES!

I don't want to put up with 12 tools (or 18 in my case) and having to shuffle & rename/number anything when I reload the ATC for a new job.  I have to do that on my old Fanuc lathe and it's aggravating when I've got to re-tool the whole turret for a new job.  That's why I'm hoping the tool table issue is sorted out.

BTW...carousel doesn't handle tools; it handles pocket numbers.  I'm butchering the explanation, but stdglue.py handles the passthrough to iocontrol to associate tool #'s with pocket #'s.  Or that's the theory as I understand it.

Even if the tool table doesn't work right, looking in to carousel.comp is, I think, worth your time.  It handles "go to pocket nn" gracefully, and as I've mentioned before it can control just about any motor/drive type.  Step & direction...even an air-motor with solenoids is do-able.  Jogging is handleded internally (no extra macros needed) and carousel keeps track of position during jogs.

I'm starting to sound like a fan-boy, but Andy's done a really nice job with it.

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17 Dec 2022 05:46 #259711 by Lcvette
I just read through the entirety of the carousel component section in the docs but i'm still unclear as to how it is handling the tool table entries and pockets. in the beginning of the doc it states that multiple tools can be used per holder which is handy for lathes, but is this to mean that pocket 3 for example which would contain tool 32 would have to be called as M6 T3 G43 H32? this is common on my fanuc lathe controller for turret station containing tool blocks with more than one tool. in a lathe format this is common because tooling is infrequently changed out and you are restricted to the turret positions and they are non random. I do not see where the current stored tool numbers are being assigned and saved to the pocket number which leads me to believe that it is simply going to require a tool call to be a pocket number? or is it writing to the tool table and the tool is available to be called by its actual number regardless of pocket location and that is handled in the background? if it is the former this would be quite a headache if your cam tool library is setup based on tool numbers and not pocket numbers. you will essentially need to edit the tool for every operation and give it a number within the pocket count range of the atc carousel and be sure to store that tool in that pocket, is that correct or no? again i'm not certain as the information didn't dive into that in the docs that i could find. do you have more complete saved docs easy to share that i could further look into it? I am curious now, I hope it is not pocket based because if not it would be a great way to transition into in the future.

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17 Dec 2022 05:59 #259714 by spumco
As I wrote earlier, carousel doesn't write to or manage the tool table.  It just moves the carousel to a commanded pocket number.

The pocket -> tool relationship is handled by stdglue & iocontrol.  And that function is what used to be broken, but is now reported to work as I think we both desire.

That stdglue/iocontrol thing is what needs some investigating.

Andy hinted at what's going on behind the curtain in this thread:
forum.linuxcnc.org/qtpyvcp/47132-tweaked...unch?start=40#255258

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20 Dec 2022 03:44 #259926 by spumco
Lcvette -

I've found the LCNC sim for testing out carousel and the tool table.  It's under sims/axis/vismach/VMC

Initial impressions... the tool>pocket issue does appear to be fixed.  Looks like iocontrol.0.tool-prep-pocket gets the pocket number for the particular tool from the appropriate tool table line - NOT from the tool table index.

i.e. if tool #20 is in pocket #3, and that's on line 6 of the tool table... the tool change still works.  M6 T20 results in tool #20 being placed in the spindle after carousel gets instructed to move to pocket #3.

The next hurdle I haven't figured out yet is how to store tools in empty pockets, or prompt the user to load a tool in the spindle if it's not in the tool table.

My guess on the first one is to add the tool to the table (or edit the tool's pocket number if it's already in the table), then call the tool with an M6.  Once the toolchange process is complete you manually load the spindle.  i.e. exactly like on an older Fanuc/Fadal machine.

I think this is a promising start.

-R
The following user(s) said Thank You: tommylight, Lcvette

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