QtDragonHD tool sensor help for a maker space

28 Dec 2023 00:33 #289210 by warwickben
Ive been helping my maker space setup their cnc router on linux cnc , ive setup my own lathe in the past and but never had a use for probes for that. i also maintain and teach people at the maker space how to use the tormach we have.

ill try to give as much info as i can.  im a machinist by trade ,manual, and cnc programming and operating.

In the ini file i know we have versa probe commented out  so we are on basic probe. when we had versa probe not commented out and probe basic commented out when we click on the probe tabs it gave error codes etc.  from my understanding if all the probes are the same type ie normally open they will work fine being on the same pin.

simple test of the probe only doing z surface, comes down and changes our current z wcs zero. (worried about a probe in a maker space lol)

touch plate , that works correctly also comes down changes the current z vaule with the added thickness.

when i try todo the tool sensor is what im having issues with. when i click the button to go to sensor is dose that, when i click the tool sensor button it will then go and probe the tool.   the issue is it changes the current wcs z vaule to a vaule of -46.XXX i forget the decimal numbers. and dose not store the tool off set vaule.

from running haas and other vmc you leave the probe as a set tool number (we allways have it as the last tool pocket) all z vaules in the offset pages should be negative z vaules.  since they are machine cord.

thanks in advance.    any questions or files needed to review let me know.


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28 Dec 2023 04:57 #289230 by cmorley
What version of linuxcnc are you using and how did you get it please?
Sounds like you may have an older version - shouldn't get errors.

Probing could be improved for sure. I have a hard time testing at the moment with my setup.

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28 Dec 2023 12:42 #289243 by warwickben
Fresh install of Debian 12, then linuxcnc from the package handler .

The only error message we got was when we had versa probe un commented and basic probe commented out . I believe that was because we did not do some of the changes for versa probe that are in the docs. Switched , The other one just worked other then the tool sensor issue .
Even done sudo update/upgrade a couple of times.

The only real issue is the tool setter dose not change the z length vaule in the tool table and the currently wcs z become -46.xxx inches . I even tried probing say tool 1 then tool 2 . Had the same out come. No values in the tool table added and z wcs -46.xxx inches .

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29 Dec 2023 07:32 #289299 by cmorley
Unfortunately the official Debian version is quite behind our 2.9 release.

Neither probe basic nor touchplate are for setting tool length in the tooltable.

here is the rough touchplate code (just look at the MDI commands):
    def touchoff(self):
        name = 'Touchoff'
        ACTION.CALL_MDI("G10 L20 P0 Z0")
        rtn = self.probe_down()
        if rtn != 1:
            return '{} failed: {}'.format(name, rtn)
        cmdList = []
        cmdList.append("G10 L20 P0 Z{}".format(self.z_offset))
        cmdList.append("G1 Z{} F{}".format(self.retract_distance, self.search_vel))
        rtn = self.CALL_MDI_WAIT(cmdList, self.timeout)
        if rtn != 1:
            return '{} failed: {}'.format(name, rtn)

        return 1

So they set the user system origin of Z for the current tool (by using G10 L20)
I personally don't know enough about what calculations to make to instead record length in the tool table (using G10 L10)
basic probe is the same - sets origin with G10 L20 or L2

Versa probe has two buttons and routines set up but i disabled them as I can not test the behaviour at this time.
If you are interested and capable of testing/suggesting changes of these routines, I would be happy to help.

But first you should get the latest 2.9.2 version of linuxcnc from us. it has a lot of bug fixes in it.


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29 Dec 2023 13:50 - 29 Dec 2023 15:32 #289310 by warwickben
thank you for the reply.
ill get linuxcnc updated to 2.9.2

one thing im confused about.
is versa probe vs probe basic just what the probing GUI window looks like and what sub routines they uses in that tab and the touch plate / tool sensor are separate from them?

to make things clear.
currently we have probe basic un commented and versa probe commented out.
click the probe tab, can run the probe routines and they set the wcs correctly.
we click the touch plate button and the tool will touch off the plate and set the wcs Z based off the value of the plate we entered. so those are workign fine.

the issue
go to sensor button will send the machine to sensor location we entered in the settings tab for it. so that works fine.
when we click the tool sensor button the spindle will move and touch off . but all it dose is make the wcs z -46 inche vs storing g53 z vaule in the tool table.

ill get linuxcnc updated to 2.9.2 today, and see if we have the same result.

im up for doing testing and making suggestions for how the tool setter should work/with the probe. ill admit as a machinist/programmer/operator i never use the advance gcodes/mdi for tool length setting/wcs setting so im confused exactly what code is doing what. but i can explain what the machine should be doing and values its storing etc.
i can also explain from the point of view of someone who runs factory machines with a probe and tool setter, the order of operation for using a probe and a tool setter for a machine that has a ATC, and a machine when you have to do manual tool changes with a spindle that tools are not indexed to (er collet spindles or router spindles, vs manual change on a bt/cat/iso spindle etc)
i can also explain how a tool that has a face larger then the the tool setter is probed compared to a tool that is the same size or smaller then the setting surface. 
Last edit: 29 Dec 2023 15:32 by warwickben.

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29 Dec 2023 23:08 - 29 Dec 2023 23:08 #289346 by cmorley
Here is a little more detail of touchplate and sensor probing:
    def touchoff(self, selector):
        if selector == 'touchplate':
            z_offset = float(self.w.lineEdit_touch_height.text())
        elif selector == 'sensor':
            z_offset = float(self.w.lineEdit_sensor_height.text()) - float(self.w.lineEdit_work_height.text())
            self.add_alarm("Unknown touchoff routine specified")
so the sensor will calculate the Zoffset as (entered in qtdragon) sensor height - workheight
It replicates a manual way to do this:
Last edit: 29 Dec 2023 23:08 by cmorley.

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29 Dec 2023 23:31 #289348 by cmorley
This is the tab on versa that does tool probing.
The top left moves to the tool setter center.
Top right uses a probe to probe the tool setter height and will enter that.
Right middle will probe the work height and enter it
This is all similar process to auto tool measuring.

The bottom two are disabled - they will be for tool height entry into a tooltable (the right button is to offset the radius of tool)
They will still need some work.
probes are expensive, so I want to be pretty cautious about this.

obviously the docs are also only just a starting point to where I'd like to be.


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30 Dec 2023 02:42 #289352 by warwickben
Stoped by the space on my way home
From work, The issue with versa probe is files not being in the right place . will need to fix that later if I have to use versa probe Over basic probe .

The send tool to sensor and tool sensor buttons that are in the lower left area of the main screen in the same group of button as camera and laser are those the same as the stuff in the versa probe window?

I was worried you had todo the tool setting like it’s explained in the doc using the table to top of work distance and table to top of tool sensor distance . It’s really not how it’s done in the industry since it add more steps then needed and possibly more error, and less chance of human input error since your not manually entering values .

Really the order of operations should be put the probe in the spindle as tool 99 or what ever your last tool pocket is if you have a auto tool changer.
Send the probe to the tool setter to record the g53 Z value for tool length (H99 vaule) . Then you probe the material and set your wcs. If you have a non repeatable spindle (router/er collet spindle) you have it go to the tool setter during tool changes .

When you have a tool change . T01 M06 H1
It reads the value of H1 (tool 1 height) which is just the g53z location that tripped the tool setter and dose the math to figure out the difference between H1 value and H99 then shifts wcs z0 up or down as needed. .
Second tool compare the H2 value to H1 and adjust the g54 z location relative again.
Or the probe T99 h99 g53 z vaule stays and the difference between h99 vaule and tool being use H vaule is treated as a comp value. Not sure how it’s exactly handled with typical industrial machines but figure it’s more or less one or the other way being done in the back ground. .

You could also do it with out a probe and use the touch plate setter with your first tool after setting the tool length.

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31 Dec 2023 06:03 #289414 by cmorley
Most hobbyist only had manual tool changes with non repeatable holders.
Now most probing solutions cater to that process.

Now I would like to explore probing for toollength for the tooltable.
I just have no experience using a CNC mill in industry. I used an old CNC lathe.

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31 Dec 2023 19:50 #289443 by warwickben
I understand that. I wasn’t sure if you could have it setup like the way they are normally do it in the industry or it’s the back end that handles the comps/offset won’t work. Cause I’ve seen some CNC machines retrofitted with Linuxcnc that work with probes .

Any questions I can answer from a machinist background let me know, since I program 3-5 axis mills and few different lathes and mill turn.

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