Emcoturn 120 lathe retrofit

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26 Apr 2016 12:29 - 26 Apr 2016 12:35 #73897 by LutzTD
I am retrofitting an Emcoturn 120 lathe. I have stripped the machine and cleaned it and am in the process of reassembling it and designing the control. Initially I was planning to us Mach, but I would like to explore all options. I am not familiar with any part of the process to install and configure linux OS or linuxcnc, so hopefully I can ask enough of the right questions to determine if this is something I can handle. I am an ME, but haven’t really done anything but basic step by step programming. I have an understanding of the general structure but no clue of the nuts and bolts of programming.. Anyway, here is the basic outline of the system I had planned using Mach, hopefully there is an equivalent or better system design I can use in linuxcnc

1. COMPUTER. Dell FX170 Thin Client 1.6Ghz 2GB, 1GB Window Embedded Standard Desktop Computer. For Linux I think this same computer was available with a linux OS, but I think if possible I would like to keep the windows embedded intact, maybe boot linux from USB?
2. GENERAL INPUT/OUTPUT. I was planning to use a smoothstepper with a CNC4PC C32 - DUAL PORT MULTIFUNCTION CNC BOARD This has relays, e-stop control and a charge pump along with a very nice rj45 setup for wiring inputs. Also supports spindle speed control through a VFD.
3. TOOLCHANGER CONTROL. Plan to use the Toolerator 3000 PCBA copied from user tome on this forum.
4. SPINDLE. I have replaced the DC spindle motor with a 5hp 3phase ac motor, I will used a VFD to drive this. I plan to use a CNC4PC C3 PULSE INDEX CARD for the spindle speed sensor. I would like to add a brake for the spindle eventually. (assume through VFD).
5. AXIS. I plan to use the stock Berger-Lahr 5phase steppers with Vexta UDX5128NA drivers.






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Last edit: 26 Apr 2016 12:35 by LutzTD.

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26 Apr 2016 12:41 #73898 by LutzTD
Replied by LutzTD on topic Emcoturn 120 lathe retrofit
current status of machine




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26 Apr 2016 12:43 #73899 by LutzTD
Replied by LutzTD on topic Emcoturn 120 lathe retrofit
thoughts on control layout, this is a Mach system layout but would be similar? in linuxcnc




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27 Apr 2016 14:09 #73953 by andypugh
The main difference in hardware between LinuxCNC and Mach3 is that you can't use the Smoothstepper with LinuxCNC. LinuxCNC relies on a realtime interface between the PC and the motion control interface. (Realtime doesn't mean fast, necessarily, so the parallel port is realtime, as is PCI and ethernet) but USB is not because the interface is allowed to delay data by up to a few milliseconds.

You could get your machine working with just the parallel port with both Mach3 and LinuxCNC, then decide which you prefer and which step generation hardware you want to use. The lathe will probably work pretty well with software step generation with both systems).

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27 Apr 2016 17:39 #73961 by LutzTD
Replied by LutzTD on topic Emcoturn 120 lathe retrofit
hi Andy,

the smooth stepper I use is the Ethernet version, would that make any difference for linux? I think the issue that moved me to the smooth stepper in the first place was the windows delegation of processor resources and to get two parallel ports on a laptop. My understanding is windows would interrupt step generation if a windows process decided it was more important and required the processor resource for a short time. If I get rid of the smooth stepper though, my thin client computer does not have 2 parallel ports nor can they be added, so I would need to bridge the gap from the thin client to the i/o pcb for a linux install. Would I need to go to a PC and add parallel port cards or something like that?

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27 Apr 2016 18:27 #73962 by Todd Zuercher
I really don't know much about the ESS, but it does appear to use the same FPGA chip that many of Mesa's cards do. There are realtime ethernet card options form Mesa that work well with Linuxcnc (7i92,7i80,7i76E). So it might not be impossible to make the ESS work with Linuxcnc, but unless Warp9 Tech is willing to support you with it, making it happen may be very difficult.

The cheapest ethernet option from Mesa is the 7i92 for $89, it gives 2 parallel port connectors, that can be set up like parallel ports, or configured to work with Mesa's DB25 daughter cards.

Some one with the knowledge to, should dig into the guts of the ESS and it's firmware to see if it can or can't be made to work with Linuxcnc.

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27 Apr 2016 20:22 - 27 Apr 2016 20:22 #73964 by LutzTD
Replied by LutzTD on topic Emcoturn 120 lathe retrofit
so does one of the Mesa cards do the step processing? then would it be apples to apples with that and the CNC4PC C32 or one of the other Mesa breakouts? would be good because the Mesa is 1/2 the cost of the smooth stepper ethernet card.
Last edit: 27 Apr 2016 20:22 by LutzTD.

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27 Apr 2016 20:24 - 27 Apr 2016 20:41 #73965 by LutzTD
Replied by LutzTD on topic Emcoturn 120 lathe retrofit
the Dell FX170 arrived today as well as the ball screw grease, 24vdc, 5vdc power supplies (thx tome) and the small rj45 BOB.












Last edit: 27 Apr 2016 20:41 by LutzTD.

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27 Apr 2016 21:53 #73968 by andypugh

the smooth stepper I use is the Ethernet version, would that make any difference for linux?

Not really, there is no smooth-stepper driver for LinuxCNC. It is not impossible that one could be written, but the way the smoothstepper works is basically to move all the motion control into the smoothstepper.
The LinuxCNC equivalents (Pico PPMC, Mesa 5i25 + 7i76. General Mechatronics) only move step-generation into the hardware, and the hardware still depends on regular position updates every 1mS.

If I get rid of the smooth stepper though, my thin client computer does not have 2 parallel ports nor can they be added, so I would need to bridge the gap from the thin client to the i/o pcb for a linux install. Would I need to go to a PC and add parallel port cards or something like that?


You can probably run a lathe in basic mode from a single parallel port. You only really need 4 outputs for 2 axes of step/dir and 5 inputs for axis limits and spindle encoder.

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28 Apr 2016 00:00 #73972 by Todd Zuercher
For little more than your C32 board you could get a mesa 7i76E, and eliminate items 2,3 and 4 from your shopping list. (it is the breakout, spindle encoder counter, vfd control, and hardware step-generator, all in one.

But if you already have your heart set on, or already have that other stuff a configuration could probably be put together that could directly replace a smoothstepper using a 7i92.

One benifit of using Linuxcnc over Mach might be that Linuxcnc can generate other step output paterns than just step/dir. CW/CCW and quadrature as well as a few more obscure options are available. (I think those vexta drives may use CW/CCW.)

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