Classicladder turret change help

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10 Sep 2012 21:24 #24135 by jlviloria
good afternoon,

My name is Jorge Viloria. I'm trying to do a retrofit to a lathe cincinnati. thanks for you collaboration in my other threads

but I have no clear as classicladder I will apply in my tool change. works with a hydraulic motor, valve acceleration / deceleration, solenoid valves, sensors.

you put here, the sequence having the manual.



the following sequence of events occurs when indexing the lower turret by "cnc" program command. the hydraulic diagram for the lower turret is shown in figure 7.1.3

1. the control checks the current position of the turret. if the turret is already in the programmed position, no physical index takes place. This allows tool offsets to be activated or cancelled without adding cycle time. If the turret is not in the programmed tool position. The indexing sequence begins as described in the following steps.

2. A solenoid valve (labeled "B" in figure 7.1.3) is energized to unclamp the turret face coupling. A proximity switch (labeled "D" in figure 7.1.3) is released when the turret is moved axially by the hydraulic cylinder to the unclamp position.

3. The control calculates the number of the tool positions that the turret must rotate to reach the programmed position.

4. A solenoid valve (labeled "A" in figure 7.1.3) is energized to the index the turret. the plunger of the acceleration/deceleration valve begins to retract from the cam and the hydraulic motor begins rotate. The hydraulic motor drives the turret through a gear train in the direction shown in figure 7.1-1. The speed of the motor/turret. rotation increases as the valve plunger retracts from the cam.

5. A proximity switch (labeled "E" in figure 7.1.3) is release between turret tool positions and actuated at each tool position. The control down-counts one position number each time switch "E" is released and actuated. Turret rotation continues until the turret is one tool position away from the programmed position. Solenoid valve "A" is then de-energized.

6. The plunger of the acceleration/deceleration valve begins to advance toward the cam. As the plunger advances, the valve restricts the exhaust line of the hydraulic motor and the motor decelerates. The rate of valve plunger advancement is controlled by the cam. The speed of rotation is low when the plunger reaches the low point of the cam. The motor continues to drive the turret toward the final position, wich is the lowest point on the cam.

7. when the final position is reached on the cam, a proximity switch (labeled "F" in figure 7.1.3) is actuated.

8. Solenoid valve "B" is de-energized to clamp the turret face coupling. Proximity switch "D" is actuated when the turret is moved axially by the hydraulic cylinder to the clamp position.

9. After time delay, the control releases the cycle-hold condition of the turret's active program and the indexing sequence is complete.


I appreciate any help


Jorge Viloria
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11 Sep 2012 15:09 #24163 by jlviloria
Friends do not ask you to do it for me.

John I have reviewed the ladder of your Hardinge, is working with a pneumatic motor.
I think it's the same principle. but I need some guidance.

Or if someone thinks they can do it I can pay for that work. is that your work is very important.

Thank you.

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11 Sep 2012 15:16 #24164 by BigJohnT
Yes it should be very similar to my ladder on my CHNC. I assume only the movement part might be different.

What exactly do you need guidance on?

John

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11 Sep 2012 15:34 #24165 by jlviloria
thanks for replying.

if you see the sequence:

3. The Control Calculates the number of the tool positions the turret must rotate That to reach the programmed position.

as I can program in classicladder, no encoder, no tachometer, as control can know what position you are? I imagine it must be programmed in classicladder but not how to do.

John I have every interest in the world to learn all you can from linuxcnc more, but it's my first contact with this, and I must admit that leaving me this big. I have no experience or knowledge.

I can pay if you think you can do. then learn from what you do.

thanks

jorge viloria
Barranquilla-Colombia

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11 Sep 2012 17:33 #24170 by BigJohnT
Step 3 does seem a bit lacking on description... how can it calculate the position unless it knows the current position? My VMC has a tool changer and it "homes" the changer to discover where it is at somehow... I assume it has one station with a second prox on it or some other means to determine where it is at. On the CHNC turret it has an absolute encoder so it always knows where it is at.

Once you know the position then use a counter in ladder to move the correct number of tool positions to the next tool.

Moving one tool position from the description you have to go all the way around to release the plunger one position ahead of the requested position unless you just energize the solenoid and release it... that might take some experimentation.

I'll try and post the general logic of the tool change in a bit.

John

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11 Sep 2012 20:01 #24173 by andypugh
jlviloria wrote:

I think it's the same principle. but I need some guidance..


Classic Ladder seems like a logical way to do this, but there are other possibilities.

Do you think you could code it in G-code? (using G65 etc to control the valves)? In that case you could look at re-mapping M6 into a G-code sub.

Can you program in C? In that case it could be a custom HAL component. (See as examples
wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Contri...oolchanger_component
and the rather more complex
wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Contri...oolchanger_component

Ladder is likely to be by far the easiest to debug.

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11 Sep 2012 23:13 #24174 by BigJohnT
To initiate the tool change you need to make a few hal connections to the classicladder.
# Tool Turret tool change, leave the tool prep loop in as there is no prep needed
net tool-prep-loop iocontrol.0.tool-prepare => iocontrol.0.tool-prepared

# this line connects the tool change request to a classicladder input
net tool-cng-req iocontrol.0.tool-change => classicladder.0.in-01

# this line connects the tool change done from classicladder
net tool-cng-done iocontrol.0.tool-changed <= classicladder.0.out-01

# this line will send the tool number to classicladder s32 input
net tool-number iocontrol.0.tool-number => classicladder.0.s32in-00

# this sends the tool prep number to classicladder s32 input
net tool-prep-number iocontrol.0.tool-prep-number => classicladder.0.s32in-01

In classicladder you now need to take the input from iocontrol.0.tool-change when it comes on you execute the ladder needed to spin your turret. The tool prep number is the tool needed.

Ladder execution is read inputs, solve logic, update outputs which is different than C or most other programming languages.

In sudo-code your ladder might start off similar to the following:
[tool change rising edge]
(trigger step 1)

[step 1 trigger]
[not step 2]
(step1)
[step1]
|

[step1]--[calculate number of moves]----[store into counter]----(step 2 trigger)

[step 2 trigger]
[not step 3]
(step2)
[step2]
|

etc.

See what you can do with this... btw have you manually cycled the tool changer and know the valves and proxes work?

John

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13 Sep 2012 21:59 #24249 by jlviloria
Andy, thanks for your response.

Friend unfortunately, I not have experience in C. you think it's easier with HAL?

I'm checking as the machine tool takes the # 1 position, proximity sensor "C" is the one that tells you the # 1 position.

give me some guidance on how to do the codes G65, etc.

thank you very much in advance for your attention.


John

Thanks for your answer.

The proximity sensor "C" is the one that tells you the # 1,
Friend, I enrolled in a course PLC, but starts on October 20. I'm doing something watching your example, and noticing of others in linuxdocumentation, I'll upload it for you check me.

Is that with the help of all of you beareth this project forward.

thanks


jorge Viloria
barranquilla colombia

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14 Sep 2012 00:26 #24256 by BigJohnT
If prox "C" tells you what is tool #1 then when you start LinuxCNC and the Tool = 0 in your ladder the logic would be something like the following

if current tool = 0
spin until tool 1 is found
now keep track of the current tool each time a tool goes by
and spin to tool requested

for subsequent tool changes
if current tool >0
calculate the number of moves needed to reach tool requested
move that number of indexes

It helps in ladder to write sudo-code like the above and work out the details then translate that to ladder.

John

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21 Sep 2012 16:57 #24526 by jlviloria
Andy:

as I do that the G65. could you give me an example?

Do you think you could code it in G-code? (using G65 etc to control the valves)? In that case you could look at re-mapping M6 into a G-code sub.

in liks you posted this information, but do not understand how to assign a code G, to a valve

thanks

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