Powermax 45xp lost arc delay (Solved)

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17 Feb 2021 14:56 - 17 Feb 2021 22:52 #199158 by tommylight
I read everything so i know there are 3 cases by now, pretty sure we are going to see more.
I also know of many more who use 7i96 and 7i76 to fire the torch without issues
Last edit: 17 Feb 2021 22:52 by tommylight. Reason: more info
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17 Feb 2021 20:53 #199177 by rodw
Replied by rodw on topic Powermax 45xp lost arc delay

snowgoer540 wrote:
Should be able to use an appropriate SSR in place of a mechanical relay and can successfully use one are two totally different things. I agree in theory they're better, that's why I tried one. In practice, for me, and a few others, they do not work in this application.


This totally ignores the fact that I have a SSR that has been working perfectly at firing the torch on my 7i76e ever since I've been using Plasmac.

For some reason, I always thought Snowgoer was using a 7i96 and on this thread I learn he is using a 7i76 and an external relay.
I always thought he had problems with the internal relays of the 7i96. Now I find thats still sitting in his drawer unused!

Snowgoer has also totally ignored the links and evidence from PCW and myself that SSR's also satisfy the dry contact closure criteria.

Now I find (as robertspark pointed out) that the SSR relay Snowgoer used is marginal in terms of the current range.

In this plasma journey we are all on, there are a lot of unknowns and a lot of things still to discover. None of us can afford to have a closed mind. To have one and be vocal about something to an extent that its "my way or the highway" is not helpful as it just provides static and misinformation for those that follow.

There is no evidence provided from Snowgoer that is relevant to the onboard Mesa relays such as the 7i76/7i76e spindle enable or the 7i96 outputs. Any future user must ignore all of what has been said about Mechanical relays as being mandatory for dry contact closure.

There is no evidence yet that the Mesa on board SSR's are unsuited for plasma operations. You cannot take a single data point for an external relay and apply it to Mesa's onboard SSR's.

In fact, there is evidence that people are using the Mesa relays without problems. I'm now one of them as this thread motivated me to get off my backside and use the spindle enable relay.

tommylight wrote: I read everything so i know there are 3 cases by now, pretty sure we are going to see more.


Tommy, I am sure you are right as over time, there have been a number users using the Mesa SSRs. Its just that they are out there cutting away and not following this forum becasue they don't have a problem to solve!

I for one am very happy that I have now eliminated all external relays from my plasma table as it will improve the reliability and MTBF.

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17 Feb 2021 21:03 #199179 by Nick7251
@PCW
Is the SSR circuit different on the 7i96 vs the 7i76? Would you mind sharing just that part of the schematic with component values? Maybe that will help in diagnosing why there seems to be issues with some peoples SSR for firing the torch.

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17 Feb 2021 21:13 - 17 Feb 2021 21:14 #199180 by PCW
Replied by PCW on topic Powermax 45xp lost arc delay
The circuits are different

The 7I96 has a transformer driven MOSFET
0 to 2A, 0 to 36V less than 1 uA off resistance
less the 50 mOhms on resistance

The 7I76E has a standard Darlington Optocoupler
0 to 50 mA, 0 to 100V ~.7V drop when on
less than 20 uA leakage when off (at 200V)

Both are polarized and will typically show as stuck-on if reversed
Last edit: 17 Feb 2021 21:14 by PCW.
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17 Feb 2021 22:51 #199194 by tommylight
Editing the above post made by me, failed to mention that i know of many more who use 7i96 and 7i76 to fire the torch without issues, but finding them proved a bit harder, as Rod said they are using the machines so not much chat here.
I did write a lengthy reply today and did not post it as i still have problems explaining things in writing, but the general idea was Snowwy and some others are right as they had issues and now they do not with a relay, for others it does work, and that is all good.
Chasing such issues can take a looooong time, installing a relay takes about 10 minutes.
Just do not blame SSR, and so far no one explicitly did, just the discussion went a bit in that direction.

This might be a bit personal, but, i really do not believe Snowwy ignored anything, he is very good at everything he does and he is a "heat seeking missile" for finding bugs, but written things do not get the whole message across, as noted above for me personally.
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17 Feb 2021 22:54 #199195 by phillc54
Yes, there seem to be words attributed to folk that were not said (or written)...

So @Nick7251 have you managed to get your machine working after all this waffle?
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17 Feb 2021 23:14 #199198 by tommylight

phillc54 wrote:
So @Nick7251 have you managed to get your machine working after all this waffle?

Yeah we did forget about you ! :) Although in the post i did not post i did offer you asylum in my country to escape all this ! :)
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17 Feb 2021 23:17 #199199 by phillc54

tommylight wrote:

phillc54 wrote:
So @Nick7251 have you managed to get your machine working after all this waffle?

Yeah we did forget about you ! :) Although in the post i did not post i did offer you asylum in my country to escape all this ! :)

:laugh: :laugh: Tom is that offer open to others? :)
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17 Feb 2021 23:39 #199200 by snowgoer540

phillc54 wrote:

tommylight wrote:

phillc54 wrote:
So @Nick7251 have you managed to get your machine working after all this waffle?

Yeah we did forget about you ! :) Although in the post i did not post i did offer you asylum in my country to escape all this ! :)

:laugh: :laugh: Tom is that offer open to others? :)


I'll buy the first round!

Thank you for the kind words Tommy!

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18 Feb 2021 00:11 #199206 by tommylight

phillc54 wrote: :laugh: :laugh: Tom is that offer open to others? :)

Yes it is to first 100 that get here ! :)
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